Fuel pump advice ?

In the continuing rebuild of Edith my 90 with a plastic moulded "Td5" tank at the rear as an auxilliary tank, I was worried about using the Td5 in-tank pump / sender unit as it was too high a pressure for my old 2.5TD. Also, I'm using this new tank for 100% vegetable oil, or maybe 90% veg to 10% derv.

Anyway, rather than buying the Td5 in-tank pump / sender, I bought (what I assume ) a compatible sender unit only, military unit, part number WQC 000150 - also known as WQC 100430 and what I hope is a pumpless version of WQB100430 (?)

What externally mounted pump would you folks advise for taking veg oil from the rear tank, to my trusty 2.5TD. Also, what other "bits" am I looking for in-line? I've got a kit that has a veg-oil heater and two filters, but should I still be putting a sedometer and that sort of milarky on as well.

Also, ny idea what fuel gauge to use with WQC 000150? I'm getting lost in the parts manual, trying to combine late parts with early.

I ken nowt about fuel systems.

Take pity and type slowly. Thanks

Hi There

It all depends where you are going to fill up from. If you are filling up with fresh oil all the time then it is hardly worth fitting an sedimentor. However if you intend to use any reclaimed oil then I would suggest you fit one as there may be a slight water content to the fuel you are using.

What sort of heaters are you using? Are you using just a heat exchanger type? If this is the case, I would suggest fitting an electric heater just before the FIP for use in cold weather.

Do you have the Bosch pump or a Lucas type pump?

Jim

Thanks Jim - i'm planning on bulk buying virgin oil from the cash and carry, so hopefully not much water - and with the plastic tank there shouldn't be much in the way of condensation, so yes, maybe I could do away with it - would having one interrupt the flow of oil more than not?

Heaters - I've got an efficient multi-finned heat exchanger using the engine coolant water, with an additional in-line electrical heater (although this is built into the switching valve that came with the kit, so I don't know how I'l fit it before the pre-filter to avoid clogging.)

I have a lucas CAV, so will always run hot oil and / or mix 10% derv to the veg tank. hopefully that'll be ok.

So far, my plan is for the run to be

Veg tank > in-line heater > prefilter > switch-over valve > shared fuel filter > engine > return to tank.

Starting on diesel, running to temp, switching over to the new plastic tank (the action of which will always send a bit of diesel to the veg tank). and then switching back to derv before shut down for any length of time.

So for a fuel pump?

Holy Smoke!

Another disaster in waiting!

Read the whole thread above headed "STRANGE", else be prepared for heaps of trouble depending where you fit your fuel pump.

CharlesY

Any after market diesel fuel pump should do you.

Im a little concerned you are running veg oil through a lucas pump. Make sure the oil is really thin before it passes through the pump. Lucas pumps tend to give trouble with veg oil, as they are made of chocolate and self destruct quite often.
So if you can get that electric preheater near the pump that would be good!

Also remember to have a change over valve on your leak off pipes. (dont want to teach you to suck eggs sorry)

I have been running oil in my 300tdi for years with no problems. I have done a fair bit of research so i'll help where I can

Oh and of course you will be filling in your EX109 form to our friends at Customs and Excise wont you!!!!

Jim

Thanks - I've read the STRANGE thread and feel a little clearer on the operation (the "comprehensive" instructions with my kit were somewhat lacking in comprehensivisness).

From the thread, I'm starting to think that my in-tank THING, may be a lift pump too? I looked at it hard and saw nothing obviously pump-like, but from the thread maybe it is? The two wires in it go to a variable resistor which obviously send the fuel level to a fuel level dial, but there is nothing looking like a pump.... but it's a complex looking bit of kit just to do this. There is a big spring on the outside of a pipe, which is mystifying me.

It's WQC000150. Can't find it in me parts catalogue.

Yea - the lucas chocolate injector. I may replace this at some point, but will give it a go and see how it lasts.

If my part above ISN'T a lift pump, as I now feel it may actually be, is there a maximum flow rate / pressure I should be looking at when buying an aftermarket fuel pump? Can someone draw me a detailed crayon picture with THE ULTIMITE SETUP for a two tank veg and diesel system. And then post it to dieselveg??

CharlesY - I'll read all your posts again s l o w l y and hopefully I'll be a bit clearer. I don't suppose your services would be for hire over here on the east coast if I get totally stuck fitting the kit?!?

Jim, I WISH I could suck eggs. I really have no clue what I'm doing and had hoped that my not exactly cheap kit would have been more comprehensive in content and instruction. I was on the hmrc site yesterday and they don't exactly make it easy, nor do they have much on the new 2500 litre rule.

Ok, so if my mystery device is a lift pump and level sender, then I run the line from that to an electrical heater, to a filter, to the heat exchanger, to the valve-thing and then the system is shared with the existing diesel line.

The kit only comes with one change-over valve, and the return pipe gets sent to whichever tank the engine is being fed from. But I bet that's not the thing you're talking about!! Never even heard of a leak pipe. I thought they all leaked.

Thanks for all advice, and vicariously thanks for the strange advice too.

I'll be back, as they say

CharlesY said:

Holy Smoke!
Another disaster in waiting!

Click to expand...

I'm not responsible for this one CharlesY....

Muddy, You need to get your head round the Land Rover fuel system. My lift pump is mechanical so there is no way I can replicate its function with anything electric (at least I think thats the case).

I think the jist is to keep it as simple as possible and use what you already have as standard on the land rover.

When you understand the fuel system the instructions make loads more sence.

Good luck....

Dirty - I know nothing about doozil landies, so am, most likely talkin out of my arse, but I used to , on petrol systems, blank off the mechanical pump (or remove the lift lever) and replace with an electric pump. Plenty are available. will look for a cupple of links or pics.

PUMPING diesel fuel is not the same as pumping gasoline.
Diesel users would do well to retain the mechanical lift / delivery pump as it has advantages.

I am not so far from Torness if a visit to me is called for!

CharlesY

I tend to disagree with you there.

I have worked with many many diesel engines from year dot to super modern. You will never find a mechanical lift pump on any modern diesel. Granted they operate slightly differently in HP delivery, but the principle of delivering fuel to the HP side is exactly the same.

I feel you will be fine with an electrical fuel pump, providing it can handle more viscous fluids. (just pump a search into google and you will get loads of products)

If you have a TD5 fuel tank, the chances are that there will be a pump unit in it.

How many terminals are in the plug?

Jim

There's going to be diesel all over the planet if he uses a TD5 pump!

Apart from anything else, there are TWO pumps in one body in a TD5 tank pump assembly. One of them pumps gentle "low pressure" to the filter, then the fuel goes back from the filter to the pump (in the tank) where the second stage pumps it up to about 4 BAR / 60 psi and sends it to the engine ...

60 psi diesel ....

Stand clear.

CharlesY

I've specially not gone for the td5 in-tank hi-nrg pump and instead gone for the military jobby as it's for a tdi, but still is designed for the TD5 tank.

I actually thought it had a pump in it when I was buying it, but on getting it it doesn't seem to. Not an electrical one anyway. It has 4 terminals on its top, but only 2 are connected to anything - they go to the level indicator.

I think I'll ignore the fuel system for a bit longer and get my new chassis up to a rolling stage at the weekend. At least THATS a bit easy! Then I might fanny about with my bulkhead.

Cheers for help and advice. I'll do some more research before I bug y'all again!

How many pipe connections are visible on the unit?
Two would be nice! One in, and one out.
CharlesY

2 - one in and one out - even has arrows on the pipes for the hard of thinking!

Still no rolling chassis, but I've taken more bits off the old girl.

muddythelandy said:

2 - one in and one out - even has arrows on the pipes for the hard of thinking!

Click to expand...

Sounds good so far. Now pipe it to the lift pump, and THEN through the filter.

Switch tanks BEFORE the lift pump and filter.

One advantage of this is that the fuel lines and switches/valves will always be in slight vacuum while driving and thus be a little less prone to leaking.

I know it seems sick, un-natural even, to try to stop a LandRover leaking, but with the price of fuel these days .... every drop counts

Thanks CharlesY - so run a fuel line from the rear tank to some location in the engine bay (seem to have loads of space for all the kit). Run another line from the underseat tank. The two lines meet at switchover valve (which has a heating element in it to) attached to bulkhead. The output then goes to a fuel pump, which then feeds the engine...

I could add the heat exchanger just prior to the switchover as I don't think it restricts any flow.

So where do the filters go? Would I put a prefilter before the switchover and just after the heat exchanger, then a further filter after the switchover (that will be shared by both tanks)? by having all the filters in the somewhat warm engine bay, there will be no waxing problems with the filters.


What happens with the current lift-pump for the under seat tank? If I have the switchover before the new pump - will the diesel just go through 2 pumps?

It's like banging your head against a wall! Sorry..

muddythelandy said:

Thanks CharlesY - so run a fuel line from the rear tank to some location in the engine bay (seem to have loads of space for all the kit). Run another line from the underseat tank. The two lines meet at switchover valve (which has a heating element in it too) attached to bulkhead. The output then goes to a fuel pump, which then feeds the engine...

***PERFECT! Use the fuel pump already on the block, the original one, because it is designed for the job, maintains a steady pressure, and is cheap and cheerful to replace.

I could add the heat exchanger just prior to the switchover as I don't think it restricts any flow.
---------------------------------
So where do the filters go? Would I put a prefilter before the switchover and just after the heat exchanger, then a further filter after the switchover (that will be shared by both tanks)? by having all the filters in the somewhat warm engine bay, there will be no waxing problems with the filters.

**** why pre-filter? it's only another complication and obstruction to fuel flow. You want unrestricted fuel flow to the lift pump.

-----------------------
What happens with the current lift-pump for the under seat tank? If I have the switchover before the new pump - will the diesel just go through 2 pumps?

****** why fit another pump when the one you already haven is there and working fine and cheap to replace at about £12 when it breaks.

----------------------------

It's like banging your head against a wall! Sorry..

Click to expand...

You can say that again .... !

Don't look for complications! Do it the simple way.


CharlesY

I think your job is done obe-wan. You have taught me well.

They keep banging on about two filters in my kit though, and included 2 but they look like crappy wee plastic jobbies.

Anyway, thank you muchly,
Cheers Alan

Hey, let us all know how it turns out, so we can learn from your experience.

CharlesY

will do. Just need a new axle casing for my rolling chassis first. Land Rovers...