Front a frame for towing a td5 disco

The Mad Hat Man said:

out of interest - what if the driver is in the towed vehicle, operating the brakes and steering?

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navigator16078 said:

what is and where would i buy a steering gaurd with recovery points

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redhand said:

I int gonna post all the legalese Again!! This topic has been covered too many times. A motor vehicle is not a trailer. and towing one behind another vehicle is only legal if it is been recovered to a place of safety.

They aren't legal because they aren't reversible for a start. The brakes on a motor vehicle do not match the requirements for trailerbrakes.

How would you reverse this combination given that the brakes will engage as soon as you start to reverse.

The only car you can tow behind another vehicle is the Axiom. As it weighs less than 750kg.

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THE LEGALS!
For those who like the idea of towing a car behind a motorhome - the good news continues.
For those who've always been against it - the continuing good news is probably not so good.
Over the years there has been a great deal of rumour and misunderstanding concerning the legality of towing frames.
As the proprietor of CAR-A-TOW and designer of the Car-A-Tow Towing Frame System, I, along with stalwart motorhomer Terry Nash of W. Sussex, (I actually think that Terrier Nash would be more appropriate), managed to bring the controversy to a satisfactory conclusion a few years ago now.
He (Terry) had eloquently badgered every government department associated with motor vehicles and trailers, to finally get them to give us some definitive answers back in Jan/Feb 2004.
The Department for Transport stated :
" When an A frame is attached to a vehicle (e.g. a motor car) and towed by a motor vehicle (e.g. a motorhome) we believe the A frame and car become a single unit and as such are classified in legislation as a trailer "
" We believe the use of A frames to tow cars behind other vehicles is legal provided the braking and lighting requirements are met".

At that time, The D f T expressed concern about a car's braking performance without its engine running.
" if the braking system has power assistance (i.e. servo or full power) it is likely that this assistance will be required during towing to meet the required braking efficiency"
At CAR-A-TOW, we are only concerned with small cars, suitable for towing behind a motorhome, generally up to around 800/1100kg kerb weight, and fitted with servo assisted brakes, (vacuum assistance).
CAR-A-TOW carried out braking performance tests on a broad range of modern small cars, he results have proven conclusively these cars not only meet the required performance for trailers - 50% braking force in relation to its maximum weight - but in most cases far exceed this requirement, without any vacuum assistance from a servo.
An important point to consider:
On a small car, a Vacuum Servo does not increase braking effect at the wheels, it is designed to make the brake pedal easier to push for all shapes and sizes of driver - less effort to achieve the required performance. A 6ft 6inch weightlifter would have no problem operating the brake pedal on a Ford Fiesta without the assistance of a vacuum servo.
Trailer overrun braking (inertia brakes), as fitted to the CAR-A-TOW system, relies upon the momentum of the weight of the trailer to exert force on the overrun coupling to activate the simple lever to pull on the brake cable to operate the trailer's brakes.
If the motorhome brakes gently the trailer brakes are hardly required, if the motorhome brakes hard the weight of the car/trailer exerts it's force on the overrun and brakes hard - proportional braking without the vacuum servo assistance.
A further point raised by The D f T ; the ability of the motorhome/car combination to be reversed without operating a manual mechanism.
Contrary to common belief, the regulations do not state that braked trailers must be fitted specifically with " auto reverse brakes ".
The D f T remind us :
" From 1st October 1988 the inertia braking system (overrun) is required to allow the trailer to be reversed with the towing vehicle without imposing a sustained drag and such devices used for this purpose must engage and disengage automatically "
Although we understand the meaning, the regulation does not state specifically 'auto reverse brakes', as commonly fitted to modern trailers and caravans, but requires a system to enable a trailer to be reversed without the need to manually operate a mechanism.
There are specific regulations concerning this requirement and the Car-A-Tow frame system can meet the requirements as stated in UN-ECE Regulation No. 13, Annexe 12, Page 137, Paragraph 3:4 and 3:5, providing the system is fitted and operated correctly and is in good condition.
The D f T state :
" Where technical requirements are mandated then the burden falls to manufacturers to ensure products meet the requirements "

We are happy that the Car-A-Tow system does comply and does meet the requirements as stated, this has been demonstrated to various experts and can be repeated as often as required.
Yet another misunderstanding is that 'trailers' may not be fitted with hydraulic brakes, the correct regulation is that trailers may not use a hydraulic parking brake. Cars are fitted with a mechanical parking brake (handbrake) and providing this handbrake lever can be operated from the ground, i.e. with feet on the ground, this handbrake conforms to trailer requirements and is completely legal.
The D f T have also stated :
" The trailer would not have to be tested to establish that it did meet the requirements - no test facilities are available" !!!!!
The D f T has reminded us continually over the years that they do not have the final say. Whilst they have now stated their belief that A frame towing is legal (after years of suggesting it was illegal), they also remind us:
" it is for the courts to make definitive interpretations of the law"
We are not aware of a court expressing a view either way. The main point here, in relation to towing a car behind a motorhome, is that we now have a statement from the D f T that they believe a car on a towing frame is in legislation etc etc a trailer providing it conforms to all other regulations relating to trailers.
If a British court was forced to question the basic principle of whether or not a car is considered to be a trailer, when connected to a towing vehicle with a towing frame, it is our understanding that a court would look to the relevant government department - The Department for Transport - for guidance and opinion, that department has already stated they believe it is classified in legislation as a trailer and it is legal.

We rest our case !!
So……. After all those years of batting this backwards and forwards with the D f T (formerly The D of T), where does this leave us ?

The D f T have confirmed they now believe that towing a car with an A frame is legal provided etc etc
We have proof that we can meet trailer braking requirements and performance although
The D f T have stated that testing is not required and The D f T have stated that no test facility is available anyway
We have a conforming parking brake
We have a conforming breakaway system (for cars below 1500kg)
The lighting conforms
We carry the registration plate of the towing vehicle (covering the rear plate of the car)
That's it then, can we now stop all the nonsense both spoken and printed, about the so called 'A frame debate', hook your car on the back and just enjoy your holidays !

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lazydog said:

800/1100kg kerb weight behind a motorhome
and doesn't mention a steam engine and 2000kg +

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Jongould said:

Below is something taken from a website for a company that actually sells the legal a-frame options. the website link is here:

The Legals!




So to restate this again, a braked a-frame IS legal

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redhand said:

ThaThat appears to be 8 years old and is the sales pitch of an A frame dealer?? It's not Law it's there twisted version in order to make it seem that their A frame (Or what ever it is) is legal..

They also seem to have missed the fact that a Trailer must have a breakaway cable fitted which engage the brakes and allow the trailer to travel and come to a stop in a short straight line without the towbar dropping to the road and digging in.

There's another problem They don't produce one for Any model Landrover or Rangerover.

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redhand said:

Yews the tacho thing has an exception to exclude local tradesmen who only tow occasionally IE where the goods carried are for their own use or consumption.. and who are working within a set distance of the vehicles registered address.

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