Freelander 1 Freelander Tyres!

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Nodge68 said:
No.
All Freelander speedos are calibrated to over read by almost 10% on the standard Michelin Synchrone 215/65/16 tyre. This tyre had a new diameter of 27.25 inches.
LR just kept with one calibration across the board, regardless of what wheels were actually fitted.
The standard 225/55/17 tyre option has a diameter of only 26.75 inches. This makes the speedometer read ridiculously high and makes a huge difference to comfort and noise at speed.
Going up to 225/60/17 increases tyre diameter to 27.6 inches. This corrects some speedo error and improves comfort.
Going up to 225/65/17 pushes diameter up to 28.5". This adds to comfort, and off road hight. It could make the speedometer over read slightly. But my sums would suggest that is will be bang on accurate.
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On my old Freelander speedo was correct with 205/80/16 tyres. That was comparing with GPS. :)
 
JC600 said:
On my old Freelander speedo was correct with 205/80/16 tyres. That was comparing with GPS. :)
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Tyres that size are 28.9 inches in diameter.
My sums suggest that the Freelander speedo is accurate with wheels just under 30" in diameter. So I'd agree with your findings. Oh going by GPS can give an error of + or - 1 Mph;)
 
Right...

Here's my T'pence worth. I set up a speedo app on the phone.

At speeds below 20mph the speedo in the car is way off (above).

From 20 - 50 the speedo was consistently accurate to the phone GPS. In fact every time I thought the speedo was reading high perhaps by 1 or 2 mph I glanced at the GPS speed which was similarly high.

I haven't measured the effective diameter accurately but it's a smudge over 28"
 
Dartmoor Navigator said:
Right...

Here's my T'pence worth. I set up a speedo app on the phone.

At speeds below 20mph the speedo in the car is way off (above).

From 20 - 50 the speedo was consistently accurate to the phone GPS. In fact every time I thought the speedo was reading high perhaps by 1 or 2 mph I glanced at the GPS speed which was similarly high.

I haven't measured the effective diameter accurately but it's a smudge over 28"
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@dfossil has put speed counters on front & rear props and at slow speeds was getting differences (that probably reflected IRD gearing and squashed front tyres etc) but at high speeds the props rotate at exactly the same speed.

I'm not sure if the props moving to the same speed was due to the VCU kicking in (because the differences were magnified at speed to a point where it was "activated" into 'hump' mode) or tyre temps raising pressure. I'm sure there's also some fancy physics coming into play with the weight of the car travelling at those speeds.

What ever the reason (and I don't think we really want to get into a VCU debate!) there are different behaviours at higher speeds.

I would have thought though that the tyres would only get hotter at speed - which would raise pressure - which would make them bigger - which would make the speedo read slower in relation to slow speeds. I think that's what you observed!

Edi: So that we have reliable data, can you please measure the distance from the center of the wheel cap to the ground whilst traveling at 50mph and 10mph and compare. :)
 
GrumpyGel said:
...I'm not sure if the props moving to the same speed was due to the VCU kicking in (because the differences were magnified at speed to a point where it was "activated" into 'hump' mode) or tyre temps raising pressure. I'm sure there's also some fancy physics coming into play with the weight of the car travelling at those speeds...
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It's difficult to explain but the vcu is doing more per unit of time, at higher speed, than low speed.

Lets take an imaginary vcu having it's props turned at N revs per minute difference at 20mph. The same vcu at 60mph would have it's prop difference 3 times faster. Or betterer still, the difference in revs at 20mph in 1 minute would be the same as the difference in revs at 60mph in 20 seconds.

The greater the differing speed of the props, and the smaller amount of time this is done in, the greater the chance of the vcu activating. Knowing the point at which the vcu activates (when the differing prop speed point is high enough) is the key to when it happens.
 
Hippo said:
The greater the differing speed of the props, and the smaller amount of time this is done in, the greater the chance of the vcu activating. Knowing the point at which the vcu activates (when the differing prop speed point is high enough) is the key to when it happens.
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Right, me brain is struggling.... but to cut a long story short, when slipping, give it a hard right foot and the rear will kick in faster?
 
Dartmoor Navigator said:
Right, me brain is struggling.... but to cut a long story short, when slipping, give it a hard right foot and the rear will kick in faster?
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Yes. If wheels spin on a FL1 the vcu will activate if it's asked to (depending on the conditions being met). The traction control will also help out if needed (if yer has it fitted) and the revs are at about 1800. Traction control will limit wheel spin, but also allow some, and expects to have to work with an activated vcu. The whole process is automated so there's no levers to pull or push. It happens as if by magic, and you won't notice other than traction control pulse the brakes if needed to stop spinning wheels.

If using hdc (hdc controls speed downhill or on the flat, in 1st or reverse gear with yer feet oft the pedals) you will feel the abs pulse the brakes. LR allowed the pulse feeling to happen, so the driver has feedback on what's happening.

It's probably best we explain the finer points of this to yer pig and let him drive. :p
 
I haven't seen a TC light in this one actually.... how can I tell,if it's fitted?

It's a useful tool when a wheel slips and you boot it to send power to the opoosing side.
 
Dartmoor Navigator said:
I haven't seen a TC light in this one actually.... how can I tell,if it's fitted?

It's a useful tool when a wheel slips and you boot it to send power to the opoosing side.
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If yer see's abs come on and go oft when first turning on the electrics, with the key, yer has abs and therefore tc is fitted anorl. Was optional on early FL1, and standard on 2001 model year onwards if I remembers correctly.
 
Dartmoor Navigator said:
Right, me brain is struggling.... but to cut a long story short, when slipping, give it a hard right foot and the rear will kick in faster?
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This was (1 of) Rache's issues. If in fact Rache was a real person, he didn't grasp that.

In "real life" though, I don't think you really have to give it any more right foot than you would do anyway. I've taken the Freelander places where my old Disco needed diff lock and low-range to get through - literally it would just get bogged down. When I've done it in the Freelander I haven't been able to tell when any wheels are slipping and the VCU "activating". It just drives on it - I may need to keep power up, but not specifically to keep the VCU activated. Its just a natural thing.

I said above we don't really want to get into a VCU debate - but there are different ways the VCU assists traction through the rear wheels - viscous mode (when the fluid is using its viscosity to turn the back wheens and 'hump' mode when the VCU locks the props together mechanically. All these different things may operate at different speed differences across the props - but they are instantaneous to those differences - eg you don't have to spin the front wheels up and wait 10 seconds for the VCU to kick in, not even 1 second, it literally just happens.

Rache was deliberately doing something you would not do - ie drive of a loose surface with low power and would not apply any more power if the car started to lose traction to try to drive out of it. The video from the LR guy clearly showed the back wheels kicking in when the go peddle was pushed.
 
Dartmoor Navigator said:
OK I might do it for 20 quid :eek:
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I'd pay 20 quid to watch that :)

TC is cool. Mine's 2WD at the mo but I still take it down the river bed fishing. The river bed is gravel with some areas of sand (I try to avoid those) and it obviously does lose traction - but the TC kicks in and I'm good.

I am very careful, and don't take it down the beach in 2WD and avoid the worst of the river bed, but I can still get to my fishing spots :)
 
I haven't seen the TC light up on this car yet, I assume it's working otherwise the light would show a fault?

I totally get TC. I use a 110 with TC, it's a challenge sometimes not to get the TC to light up but when it does a bit of right boot sticks power out (hopefully) to the non spinning wheel.

Combining that with a VCU gives the Freelander a pretty good set up, except for the lack of low box. However, in very loose, flat terrain we often teach the use of high ratio anyway as 1st gear equates to about 3 low.
 
Dartmoor Navigator said:
It's bad enough looking out for TC, ABS, VCU, IRD and HDC..... where am I gonna get the time to film wheels going around.....


OK I might do it for 20 quid :eek:
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You don't need to do or film anything. If the Freelander stops moving due to the surface being slippery. You just puts your foot down a bit more so the VCU and TC work together to get you moving;)
 
Nodge68 said:
You don't need to do or film anything. If the Freelander stops moving due to the surface being slippery. You just puts your foot down a bit more so the VCU and TC work together to get you moving;)
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Any way to check the TC function, Nodge? I suppose shoving it in a wet field should get it lit up.
 
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