Freelander 2 Engine Trouble

I wonder if anyone can help with a problem I have with my Freelander 2. It's a 2009 which I bought from new, looked after and serviced yearly. Whilst driving the other day, noticed a rather loud 'cammy' noise suddenly appear. Obvious thing to do was to check the oil which was a bit low (min on dipstick) so put approx 1 litre in hoping the noise would disappear, it didn't! As I work next door to a garage & MOT centre I took it to work to see if they could help. After a couple of lads had a look, it was decided that the noise was not in the top of the engine (i.e.the tappetts) it was deeper down, possibly crankshaft, so it was parked up and left for someone else to come in to look further as the garage didn't want to know (to big a job for them) Since then there has been a lot talk of me having to have a new engine, but the other bloke hasn't looked yet. Now i'm in a right situation cos wherever it goes it will have to be towed and there it will stay until fixed. I can't believe it needs a new engine as its only done 50,000 miles and I know for a fact it's been looked after as it's only me that's owned it! Has anyone out there had anything similar happen? I should point out that when I start it up now, it's sounds 'lumpy', as if it's not firing on all four. My mate with a Discovery said he had the same trouble and it was something to do with the wires around the fuel injectors, they weren't working as they should and it sent all the timing out, if that makes sense?

I think you need to get the engine codes read, engine trouble is rare, but there have been a few that have been replaced,

An injector fault will often give you an engine light.
It's not unheard of for the engine to spin a bearing. I'm sure that they suffer the same crank/ bearing failure that the TDV6 suffers. If so it'll be replacement engine time.
Out of interest, how many miles are on it?

There are no lights coming on to signify a fault. Only 50,000 miles on clock. I'll get engine codes read in the morning. I'm just a bit wary that i'm in the hands of wherever it goes and so I was just trying to get a 'heads up' first.

Sii7 said:

I'm just a bit wary that i'm in the hands of wherever it goes and so I was just trying to get a 'heads up' first.

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I understand that pain - its why I do my own maintenance now.

Nodge68 said:

It's not unheard of for the engine to spin a bearing. I'm sure that they suffer the same crank/ bearing failure that the TDV6 suffers. If so it'll be replacement engine time.

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Can you not just replace the "big end bearings" these days?

There are swirl flaps in the inlet manifold that have been known to break, also the exhaust cam can break where it drives the hp pump, either would fit in with the top end noise..

GrumpyGel said:

I understand that pain - its why I do my own maintenance now.

Can you not just replace the "big end bearings" these days?

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In theory yes, a bearing shell is just a bearing shell.
However if an engine has spun a bearing, a new set of shells isn't going to fix it. First you have to find out what made the bearing spin in the first place. Once the cause is found, you have a better idea of how to prevent a repeat failure.
If a bearing has spun however, the part where the backing material spun against is scrap. So if a main bearing picked up on the crank and spun in the main bearing housing, generally the block is scrap. That is worst case scenario though.

Wow!! I'm no mechanic but have a basic knowledge. What are swirl flaps? and whats an exhaust cam?

Sii7 said:

Wow!! I'm no mechanic but have a basic knowledge. What are swirl flaps? and whats an exhaust cam?

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All engines have cams, unless they are 2 stroke
Swirl flaps are fitted to add turbulence to the incoming air. This aides fuel mixing and helps keep black soot and other pollutants to a minimum. Some BMW engines have problems with Swirl flaps too.

Nice one. So you mean the camshaft at the top of the engine then? Surely if this broke, it wouldn't start at all or at the very least it would sound a little worse than lumpy?

Could be cam sensor, ecu fault causing rough running

Would the cam sensor failing make it sound like a tractor? I can understand it sounding lumpy, but, this sounds a bit like when you used to peg a bit of cardboard onto the back of the old BMX!!!!

I'm definitely no rocket scientist when it comes to diagnosing engine problems, but peg and cardboard doesn't sound like "metallic" issues - ie I would question bottom end problems because its all metal down there.

Those swirl flaps aren't metal (usually?), they are plastic and can fracture with the bits ingested into the engine and cause all sorts of issues with valves etc. I suppose with the likes of EGR valves these days, they could have a couple of hits at knackering (the top end) of an engine.

I would be very cautious about swapping engines yet. There have been lots of stories like this that turn out to be timing/fueling issues - eg faulty wiring to injectors etc (not necessarily F2 though). Problem is, where do you go to and who do you trust to diagnose your problem. I would definitely put it on a diagnostic machine and see if there are any codes stored. If there are, they may not even relate directly to your problem, but may give an idea of what may be failing.

I may be being thick here, but I'm not even sure whether you're engine is petrol or diesel?

I'd recommend you also look/ask on the Freelander 2 forums (freel2.com) as there are plenty of people on there with specialist knowledge of these vehicles.

It's a diesel. I may have misled you with the cardboard & peg scenario, it's definately a metallic noise. I'm no mechanic but it sounds like there is no oil in the engine. To me, it sounds like the cam is making a 'clicking' noise. It gets faster when revved. Cheers davidsmith 1307, I will have a look at that forum now.

Maybe someone out there knows of any mechanics/garages that just work on Land Rovers in the Birmingham area?

Freelander 2s suffer the same crank pulley failure that the TD4 suffers so it's well worth checking that out. Also it has 2 drive chains in the engine. One driving the oil pump, the other is in the head. Both can cause issues, but at higher miles than 50k.
Crank pulley would be where I'd look first

An update for those that are interested. I have now sent the car to a 4 x 4 garage who work on a lot of Land Rovers. The usual things like the Fuel Injectors, Camshaft & Swirl Flaps have been checked and they are all OK. Engine codes have obviously been read and there are no faults showing. I now have to make the decision whether the bloke should start stripping the engine down as it's the only way he can find the problem. I've not got much choice really as it's not worth much in the condition its in. Also, my mate who's a mechanic says he thought it sounded like the tappetts, or perhaps one of them. He said that if one's gone now, the others may follow one by one. Can anybody tell me if this seems correct cos I don't want this happening again. Of course I haven't been told by the chap with the car that this is the problem, so I know i'm jumping the gun a bit!! I'de just like to know the opinions of others.

Diagnosis is easy really - I do not know +WHY+ they are having difficulty diagnosing the source.
Firstly - 'top end' issues are half engine speed !

Secondly , Bottom end (crankshaft' noise (Main bearing(S)) are distinguished by a heavy knock increasing under load.(Big end(s), and a very noticeable bottom end rumble from the main journal bearings.
A common tool amongst most competent mechanics (and I use the word loosely) is a diagnostic electronic stethoscope. - this can really help identify issues.

Thirdly - check the actual oil pressure ! that would help with a bearing spin issue or blocked journal passage to a specific bearing.

When you describe the 'noise' it is extremely difficult to assist from your interpretation of what it sounds like.

Record it - - a video (with sound of course) - do not get too close as it tends to mask other sounds ! - the AGC on the audio take over. !

You say you took it to a 4X4 'specialist' - again I use the term (from your description) very very loosely !!!!!!!

WHY THE F^CK would he be P!!sing abut with swirl flaps, codes, Cam etc unless he did not have AT LEAST the basic knowledge to at least diagnose the source of the issue !!!!!! -
Speed of 'noise' in relation to engine RPM is a first no brainer - this seems eminently lacking

I am not saying you have not got a serious issue - I am saying that - from what you have said - that your so called 'mechanics' are utterly incompetent.
Joe