1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome To LandyZone!

    LandyZone is the biggest Land Rover forum on the net. We have plenty of very knowledgable members so if you have any questions about your Land Rover or just want to connect with other Landy owners, you're in the right place.

    Registering is free and easy just click here, we hope to see you on the forums soon!

Freelander 2 (LR2) Freelander 2 diesel engine problem. Now running, but still with a misfire.

Discussion in 'Land Rover Freelander' started by Nodge68, Jul 15, 2020.

< Previous Thread | Next Thread >
  1. dfossil

    dfossil Active Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2015
    Posts:
    299
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    Staffs
    On the hawkeye under maintenance there is a routine for coding a new injector to the ECU - could the ECU be remembering a code for a duff injector in the past?
     
  2. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    21,910
    Likes Received:
    5,003
    Location:
    Near Newquay
    Funny you mentioned coding. In theory the engine should still run ok on random uncoded injectors. The fueling modifications done by coding are literally miniscule, basically it's for emissions cleanliness only.
    However.
    Something I noticed yesterday when I had No3 and No2 injectors out. Someone has faintly stamped cylinder numbers into the injector body. Now I kept the injectors in the same sentence as I removed them, assuming the new ones were coded to the PTM.
    What I noticed with the injectors out was the one stamped No3 actually came out of No2 cylinder, and the one stamped No2, came out of No3. So if these replacement reconditioned injectors were coded to the PTM, they were coded the wrong way round. This engine is basically the reverse of convention when it comes to cylinder numbering, cylinder No1 being at the flywheel end, but the replacement injectors seem to be sequenced starting from the cam drive end, which is reversed.

    I've not looked at No1 or No4, to see if those are stamped with numbers or checked if they're in the wrong cylinders, but I'm betting they are.

    The engine once running on 4, is running better now than when I first fired it up, maybe putting those two injectors in the correct cylinders has improved it, but it's still doesn’t explain why No3 cylinder still doesn't run or flag an error when it's disconnected, until the engine is running on all 4.
    It's almost like the PTM doesn't know it's a 4 cylinder engine, until it has warmed up. It is very very strange.
     
  3. dfossil

    dfossil Active Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2015
    Posts:
    299
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    Staffs
    [QUOTE="Nodge68, . The fueling modifications done by coding are literally miniscule, basically it's for emissions cleanliness only.
    Could it be that these very small adjustments are only on idle - therefore consistent with your symptoms?
     
  4. dfossil

    dfossil Active Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2015
    Posts:
    299
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    Staffs
    Oh! scrub that - if your engine revs hard still on three when cold I'm talking bollocks
     
  5. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    21,910
    Likes Received:
    5,003
    Location:
    Near Newquay
    It still revs up on 3 cylinders. When it's running on 4 cylinders, the idle is smooth, but there's a slight unevenness, but that could be due to the repairs I've done on No2 cylinder, which could well need some time to bed in.


    I've done a video of it this morning, starting from cold, allowing it to idle until it starts running on 4. Unfortunately it's a bit windy here today, so the camera mutes the engine sound as the wind blows, but it's still audible when No3 starts to play ball.

    I'll edit it and post it later if I can.
     
  6. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    21,910
    Likes Received:
    5,003
    Location:
    Near Newquay
    Been out for a couple of miles test drive. It started well, with it putting smoothly under gentle acceleration.

    First thing I noticed was how noisy the rear diff seems, now the engine is so quiet. :eek:
    I'll change the oil, but suspect I'll be rebuilding that at some point.

    The engine ran nicely, much nicer than the last time I drove it.

    When I got to a hill, a misfire developed, probably just one cylinder, and was very random in nature.

    Once over the hill, the misfire stopped and I was able to continue home without any further drama.

    So I think the next item to replace is going to be the crank position sensor, as I know these can cause random misfire problems.
     
  7. paul99

    paul99 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2020
    Posts:
    318
    Likes Received:
    91
    Location:
    Right here, right now.
    Here's hoping that is the source of your problems.
     
  8. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    21,910
    Likes Received:
    5,003
    Location:
    Near Newquay
    I know it can cause misfire issues and a pattern part is £12, so worth a shot I think.
     
  9. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    21,910
    Likes Received:
    5,003
    Location:
    Near Newquay
    So I recorded this video first thing this morning.
     
  10. Arctic2

    Arctic2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2014
    Posts:
    1,756
    Likes Received:
    350
    Location:
    Westmidlands
    Hi John.
    What is the noise cutting in at about 2.15min into the video ? sounds great once warmed up, i managed to remove and replace the manifold today, what a nightmare, i would not want to do one of those again in an hurry, will post up on my own thread hope you can comment on how you, dealt with the manifold part that is in the alloy bracket, stopping you from removing the manifold?
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    21,910
    Likes Received:
    5,003
    Location:
    Near Newquay
    That was a scooter whizzing past the end of my lane. Unfortunately Sunday mornings seems to be when the scooterboyz are out n about.

    It does, although it does splutter if it's asked to do some work.

    What's your thoughts on the crank sensor being the cause?
     
  12. paul99

    paul99 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2020
    Posts:
    318
    Likes Received:
    91
    Location:
    Right here, right now.
    I personally still suspect that you are losing just enough compression that the cylinder fails to fire and once the engine warms up, the tolerances tighten up enough to cut the compression loss and the cylinder starts firing. I could be wrong and often am, but that is my current theory.
     
  13. Arctic2

    Arctic2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2014
    Posts:
    1,756
    Likes Received:
    350
    Location:
    Westmidlands
    Hi John.
    I don't think its the crank sensor, but as you say for £15 aftermarket one it's worth changing, i have a feeling it's one of the injectors, or the wiring to them ? chasing misfire is a time consuming problem, but you will find it i am sure.
     
  14. LUKBENPHI

    LUKBENPHI Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Posts:
    2,134
    Likes Received:
    830
    Location:
    Peak District
    Check the bolts haven't stretched not unknown for the when the piston or something knocks the injector, father in law had it on transit with same engine, smashed injector nozzle and stretched bolts. so untill it warms up and seals compression can move the injector as with stretched bolts its not tight enough to head

    wiring or ecu fault, my old rover 416i 16v did the same with a fuel injector, swapped them round and no differnece so had to trace wiring back but was ecu in end
     
  15. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    21,910
    Likes Received:
    5,003
    Location:
    Near Newquay
    The cylinder that isn't firing isn't the cylinder that I've repaired. The damaged cylinder was No2, which is firing just fine (the engine slows when the injector is unplugged).

    The cylinder that only begins to start firing when warm is No3.

    All cylinders had equal compression cold, so that's been discontinued.

    It's like the PTM doesn't know it has to fire No3, until it's warmed up. It makes no sense, but I am now convinced that all the previous engine work was done in an attempt to solve this issue.
     
  16. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    21,910
    Likes Received:
    5,003
    Location:
    Near Newquay
    Absolutely, and I know the crank sensor can cause random misfire problems. It's my best guess at the moment.
    I've tested the injectors by substitution, the misfire remains on No3. If it was the wiring, wouldn't the PTM flag an open circuit code from cold? Because it doesn't, but it does when the plug is removed, once it's running on all 4.
    They're up there with with random or intermittent faults.:(
     
  17. SWalker

    SWalker Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2017
    Posts:
    149
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    lisburn
    so it only logs a fault (open circuit) when warm. does it log open circuit for the other cylinders when cold?
    if its just number 3 - or worth a punt either way - measure the resistance of the loom at the injector end cold vs warm see if there is a difference. I am going to hazard a guess and say you should see something in Kohms - not totally sure but should be the same give or take an ohm, hot or cold.
    measure between the pins and individually WRT GND to see.
    good luck.
     
  18. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    21,910
    Likes Received:
    5,003
    Location:
    Near Newquay
    That's how it's been so far. If the engine is cold and running on 3 cylinders, unplugging No3 doesn't log an open circuit code.
    It only logs an open circuit code, once that cylinder has started running.
    All the other cylinders log an open circuit code from cold.

    If the crank sensor doesn't fix the issue, I'll be measuring the resistance of the complete harness from PTM to injector plug. I'll measure a working injector harness too, so I have a point of reference.
    Thanks. ;)
     
  19. Arctic2

    Arctic2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2014
    Posts:
    1,756
    Likes Received:
    350
    Location:
    Westmidlands
    Hi Nodge
    I was reading about misfire on the Freel2 and it turned out to be the fast pedal, now i am not saying this is your fault, but i wonder as you suspect that the damage to your FL2 was caused trying to track down this fault, just a suggestion not a i know what it is thought. o_O :)
     
  20. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    21,910
    Likes Received:
    5,003
    Location:
    Near Newquay
    I've read that too. I kinda discounted it as the misfire when cold is constant and only on No3 cylinder.
    After I've replaced the crank sensor, I'll investigate the Pedal Position Sensor. I'm sure I can graph the output of the PPS, so I might have a go at that in the meantime.

    I'm tempted to ask over on the other forum for ideas, but I get the impression that the members seem to be more worried about cosmetic improvements than getting there hands dirty with proper mechanics stuff.
     
< Previous Thread | Next Thread >