- Posts
- 3,275
- Location
- Rushden, Northants, UK
P38A Fobbed-off 2000 Vogue 4.6
- Thread starter DanClarke
- Start date
This site contains affiliate links for which LandyZone may be compensated if you make a purchase.
- Posts
- 15,150
- Location
- Benfleet, Essex
Good to hear its all tickety-boo again!
tomcat59alan
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 18,611
- Location
- wirral and triquivijate
Try drilling two smallholes in the battery cover and use a pair of long nosed pliers or circlip pliers to remove it
kds
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 2,217
- Location
- old,ugly, tired in Lincoln.
Pooooh, I was told only key 1, I already had key 1 and it had gone on the blink so was going to order either 2 or 3 but it was "sorry sir only key 1 now". Oh well the next owner will have to worry about it I have just bought a L322 td6 on a 03 plate, I shall go lay down in a dark room listening to whale music now asking have I lost the plot!
- Posts
- 18,961
- Location
- Buckinghamshire, UK. ('95 DT)
kds
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 2,217
- Location
- old,ugly, tired in Lincoln.
Main stealer ? is that the place where you have to shave wear collar and tie best suit shine shoes and walk bent over before let you in ( I might be retired but its normally work boots jeans and jumper with weld burn holes in it for me), no but they did check for me I even gave them part numbers for key 2 and 3 but computer say no.
- Posts
- 3,275
- Location
- Rushden, Northants, UK
Our dealer is Marshalls of Bedford, asked me which key when I ordered it.
Kevin in the parts dept is a real gem.
Peter
Kevin in the parts dept is a real gem.
Peter
tomcat59alan
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 18,611
- Location
- wirral and triquivijate
- Posts
- 18,961
- Location
- Buckinghamshire, UK. ('95 DT)
Stratstone in Aylesbury asked me the same thing.
Madman2Swords
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 2,947
- Location
- Brizzle
Hi did you change the batteries yourself?
If you delay when you remove the old batteries and fit the new ones it can completely erase all the data on the fob and you will have to completely reprogram it.
- Posts
- 18,961
- Location
- Buckinghamshire, UK. ('95 DT)
SpanishTony
Active Member
- Posts
- 297
- Location
- Cheshire
Changed my batteries today no data erase just a resync. Original batteries stopped working on Friday, just got round to it today as I have 2 working fobs
Madman2Swords
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 2,947
- Location
- Brizzle
That's wot it says in the owners manual, if you delay by about 30 seconds it will erase data.
- Posts
- 18,961
- Location
- Buckinghamshire, UK. ('95 DT)
I'll have to read RAVE but from memory there is a static code that is unique to your car and key and then a rolling code on top of that which is unique to the key. I can see the rolling code might be lost and hence the need to resync but the static part before it is on a write once only chip, I think. @martyuk and MrSporty know a lot more about the electronic side of things.
- Posts
- 15,150
- Location
- Benfleet, Essex
OK, its getting silly now.
Noticed that the battery volts were down to 11.6 Sunday when I turned the ignition on.
A little run and a short spell on a charger had the battery sitting at 12.6 when all completed.
Yesterday it was down to 12.4v, today it is down to 12.0v.
Jog switch is on order, but I am going to pull that RF unit off the loom before my battery is completely screwed.
I assume its all OK and entry by key will still be viable from a security and enabling/disabling viewpoint?
Noticed that the battery volts were down to 11.6 Sunday when I turned the ignition on.
A little run and a short spell on a charger had the battery sitting at 12.6 when all completed.
Yesterday it was down to 12.4v, today it is down to 12.0v.
Jog switch is on order, but I am going to pull that RF unit off the loom before my battery is completely screwed.
I assume its all OK and entry by key will still be viable from a security and enabling/disabling viewpoint?
Madman2Swords
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 2,947
- Location
- Brizzle
Speaking from the experience I had when I bought my D1 the preveous owner had let the battery run right down so I put new battery in there was a delay, at the time I wasn't aware of the potential data loss I only discovered that after reading manual much later down the line the upshot is I had to buy complete new key fobs and had a mobile auto key specialist reprogram key fob to my D1, after that all's good with no further probs.
- Posts
- 18,961
- Location
- Buckinghamshire, UK. ('95 DT)
Aftermarket radios can cause issues too.
12.6 isn't a lot after a full charge. For a P38 I'd say it should be above 12.9V. I put a Platinum 642X battery in mine and am very pleased with it. I also upgraded the setpoint in my alternator to 14.5V but then I have the diesel and it was only 13.8V before.
If you unplug the RF receiver you will have to hold the fob against the rear quarterlight to make the fob work. With some signals it still doesn't cure it. If it is RF interference it may well burn your locks out. I went through 3 or 4 lots before I replaced my RF receiver. Using the key rather than the fob leads to having to put the EKA code in for some people. I suspect this is because the rolling code isn't picked up by the receiver with the key in the ignition.
- Posts
- 15,150
- Location
- Benfleet, Essex
Hi @Grrrrrr I meant pulling the entire RF receiver off the loom. I already have its aerial disconnected and I am opening with the fobs at close quarters to the DSR quarterlight.
I was anticipating that this would prevent BECM wake-ups entirely. But was not sure whether it would lead to other issues.
I was anticipating that this would prevent BECM wake-ups entirely. But was not sure whether it would lead to other issues.
martyuk
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 824
- Location
- Swindon, UK
You can have the passive immobiliser setting turned off in the BECM, then you should be fine to have the RF receiver completely disconnected. I would just make sure you have a good drivers door latch - as you will be relying on the microswitches in that, and if one of the CDL or Key switches starts having issues, then you can still end up with a pile of headaches.
Luckily on the later P38's (BECM Software V36 onwards) you can enter the EKA via diagnostics on the OBD port, so a bad door latch isn't as bad as the earlier P38's.
On the key fobs - they are programmed/hard coded from the factory with their ID - this is stored in non-erasable memory. If you take the batteries out it will lose sync to the vehicle, and this will need to be re-done via the key in the door method, or if passive immobilisation is turned on (and the coil around the ignition works!) then it should do it automatically. One important note on key battery replacing... I advise all owners to replace the batteries in the fob with the vehicle UNLOCKED... mostly because it then avoids potential headaches of the vehicle needing the EKA before it will then resync the key (which numerous owners have then found they don't have the EKA, and what should be a simple job turns into a total headache)
But that aside - and back to the OP's problem...
Disconnect the RF receiver and see if that makes a difference in your battery drain.
Have you tried sitting in the vehicle in the evening with the RF receiver still connected (doesn't need to be locked) and see if the BECM actually goes to sleep, and if it does, then if it is woken up again by itself. This only works if you have an auto, but looking closely at the gearshift, you'll see the selector LED faintly lit (next to the 'P' if in park!) when the BECM is awake. This will extinguish if the BECM is asleep.
Sit and wait a couple of minutes and see if the light goes out. If it doesn't, then try disconnecting the RF receiver completely and repeat the test. If it then goes out, RF is your issues and causing the BECM to stay awake. If you disconnect the RF receiver and the BECM STILL doesn't go to sleep, then you have something else causing your battery drain.
Likewise - if the RF receiver is plugged in and the BECM DOES go to sleep, and it ISN'T woken up again (red light comes back on) then RF ISN'T your issue, the BECM is sleeping, and there must be a battery drain somewhere else (whether BECM related or not).
try this out and report back, as it will help narrow down/prove/eliminate area as to where the issue actually lies.
Marty
Luckily on the later P38's (BECM Software V36 onwards) you can enter the EKA via diagnostics on the OBD port, so a bad door latch isn't as bad as the earlier P38's.
On the key fobs - they are programmed/hard coded from the factory with their ID - this is stored in non-erasable memory. If you take the batteries out it will lose sync to the vehicle, and this will need to be re-done via the key in the door method, or if passive immobilisation is turned on (and the coil around the ignition works!) then it should do it automatically. One important note on key battery replacing... I advise all owners to replace the batteries in the fob with the vehicle UNLOCKED... mostly because it then avoids potential headaches of the vehicle needing the EKA before it will then resync the key (which numerous owners have then found they don't have the EKA, and what should be a simple job turns into a total headache)
But that aside - and back to the OP's problem...
Disconnect the RF receiver and see if that makes a difference in your battery drain.
Have you tried sitting in the vehicle in the evening with the RF receiver still connected (doesn't need to be locked) and see if the BECM actually goes to sleep, and if it does, then if it is woken up again by itself. This only works if you have an auto, but looking closely at the gearshift, you'll see the selector LED faintly lit (next to the 'P' if in park!) when the BECM is awake. This will extinguish if the BECM is asleep.
Sit and wait a couple of minutes and see if the light goes out. If it doesn't, then try disconnecting the RF receiver completely and repeat the test. If it then goes out, RF is your issues and causing the BECM to stay awake. If you disconnect the RF receiver and the BECM STILL doesn't go to sleep, then you have something else causing your battery drain.
Likewise - if the RF receiver is plugged in and the BECM DOES go to sleep, and it ISN'T woken up again (red light comes back on) then RF ISN'T your issue, the BECM is sleeping, and there must be a battery drain somewhere else (whether BECM related or not).
try this out and report back, as it will help narrow down/prove/eliminate area as to where the issue actually lies.
Marty
- Posts
- 15,150
- Location
- Benfleet, Essex
Hi Marty, Grrrrr et-al, thanks for the replies,
I pulled the connector for the RF unit this afternoon. I can open and close the doors on the drivers key and the CDL for all doors is still functional (so at least the car is capable of being locked/unlocked).
I have a Nanocom and the BeCM is unlocked so I think I should be covered should anything go awry. I was aware of the Auto-select LED signifying wake-ups by glowing brighter on waking.
As I have pulled the thing now false RF triggers should NOT be able to wake the BeCM and I don't know anything else that is supposed to wake a sleeping BeCM?
I will sit in it when it is dark tonight and check the BeCM falls asleep and does not wake up again while I am in there. I will monitor the battery volts daily and see what happens.
Immediately after the engine has stopped the battery shows 13.4V but this drops to 12.6 fairly soon and stays there. A daily drop of 0.X of a volt is a bit worrying. It is a brand new battery.
As I say, a 315Mhz Jog unit is on its way as fast as they can mine the required Chinesium components and that would allow me to disable the RF unit until I call for it to be switched on.
If I could bypass the bonnet switch I could put a ring-ammeter on the main battery lead and see what happens as it goes to sleep/wakes up.
Thanks again for all the info and suggestions.
I pulled the connector for the RF unit this afternoon. I can open and close the doors on the drivers key and the CDL for all doors is still functional (so at least the car is capable of being locked/unlocked).
I have a Nanocom and the BeCM is unlocked so I think I should be covered should anything go awry. I was aware of the Auto-select LED signifying wake-ups by glowing brighter on waking.
As I have pulled the thing now false RF triggers should NOT be able to wake the BeCM and I don't know anything else that is supposed to wake a sleeping BeCM?
I will sit in it when it is dark tonight and check the BeCM falls asleep and does not wake up again while I am in there. I will monitor the battery volts daily and see what happens.
Immediately after the engine has stopped the battery shows 13.4V but this drops to 12.6 fairly soon and stays there. A daily drop of 0.X of a volt is a bit worrying. It is a brand new battery.
As I say, a 315Mhz Jog unit is on its way as fast as they can mine the required Chinesium components and that would allow me to disable the RF unit until I call for it to be switched on.
If I could bypass the bonnet switch I could put a ring-ammeter on the main battery lead and see what happens as it goes to sleep/wakes up.
Thanks again for all the info and suggestions.
