Flushing your intercooler

I used parafin for mine - worked fine.

I had to use 2 or 3 lots of parafin till it came out clean. Then left
to dry in the sun for half a day and put back together again.

Also, make sure to clean the pipes to and from the intercooler, they
will probably be oily as well - it would be a shame to let oil run
back in once youve cleaned it!

The biggest difference I found was putting a K&N air filter in - made
a bigger difference than cleaning the intercooler.

Slightly off topic but I have found that the K&N's are excellent when
clean but you can really tell when they need cleaning - which reminds
me i really must get a cleaning kit for it.

Jon




On 19 Jul 2004 14:24:12 GMT, Simon Barr <[email protected]> wrote:

>It's been suggested to me that flushing my intercooler may give my 110 a
>little performance boost. I was speaking to a fellow Glass member about
>how getting up some hills the 110 drops to under 50mph when loaded up for
>camping (two adults, two kids, camping stuff + small trailer).
>
>He reckoned that some members of another club have said it's well worth
>doing and will almost certainley make a difference.
>
>As I can't afford one of the sexy Allisport ones I saw at Billing I
>thought I might have a go at flushing mine, after 150,000 miles there
>is a fair chance it may be a bit bunged up.
>
>But what should I use? I was thinking of removing the intercooler and
>filling it with some sort of degreaser and leaving it overnight for the
>degreaser to disolve whatever may be in there.
>
>Anyone have any suggestions?

What an idiot, I totally forgot about that. Show's how bloody old and in the
past I am. )


"Alistair Bell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hirsty's wrote:
> > As to what is organic, take a look at the container and it might state
this,
> > if not use the help number they give ( or should give ), in the extreme
any
> > university chemistry department will help with a few polite questions.
> >
> >>What exactly is the 'hazardous nature' of organic solvents? I am
carefull
> >>when using solvents but I wouldn't recognise an organic one if it came
> >>and slapped me round the face.
>
> The web, stick your solvent name into google, preferable the chemical
> name if you know it and safety or "COSHH" (COSHH = Control Of Substances
> Hazardous to Health), is generally pretty good at this sort of thing as
> long as you have your twaddle filter (mental rubbish sorting) turned up
> fairly high. If several sites are in agreement then you probably have
> the right answer.
>
> Alistair
>

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:13:32 +0300, "Pantelis Giamarellos"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >Diesels have a tendency to soil the intercooler's internals with lots of
> >black oily and sticky stuff.
>
> how'd they manage that then?
>
> AIUI, you go inlet > filter > turbo > intercooler > engine.
>
> so where does the gunge come from? Unless the turbo's dodgy?
engine breather

On or around Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:12:41 +0100, "Jon" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On or around Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:13:32 +0300, "Pantelis Giamarellos"
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>> >Diesels have a tendency to soil the intercooler's internals with lots of
>> >black oily and sticky stuff.
>>
>> how'd they manage that then?
>>
>> AIUI, you go inlet > filter > turbo > intercooler > engine.
>>
>> so where does the gunge come from? Unless the turbo's dodgy?
>engine breather
>


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria"
- Dante Alighieri (1265 - 1321) from Divina Commedia 'Inferno'

In article <[email protected]>, Hirsty's wrote:
>
> Good Luck, let us know how you get on as I might have a go myself
>

Well, the intercooler has now been removed, flushed and refitted. All hoses
were wiped out at the same time. I found a container of 1-1-1 trike in the
shed that I got from I don't remember where years ago so I used that to do
the flushing.

The solvent came out very dirty and left what I could see of the inside of
the intercoler looking spotless, whereas before it was covered in a thick
black oily film.


Net result? Absolutely no difference whatsoever!

I'm a bit disappointed as it seemed as if a lot of muck was washed out of
the intercooler.

Now I've just got to get someone to get me an Allisport one for my birthday
next month to make up for it.

--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.

On or around Thu, 22 Jul 2004 22:56:33 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On or around Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:12:41 +0100, "Jon" <[email protected]>
>enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>>"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> On or around Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:13:32 +0300, "Pantelis Giamarellos"
>>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>>
>>> >Diesels have a tendency to soil the intercooler's internals with lots of
>>> >black oily and sticky stuff.
>>>
>>> how'd they manage that then?
>>>
>>> AIUI, you go inlet > filter > turbo > intercooler > engine.
>>>
>>> so where does the gunge come from? Unless the turbo's dodgy?
>>engine breather
>>

oops. how did that escape?

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
Boswell's "Johnson".

On or around 23 Jul 2004 07:46:43 GMT, Simon Barr <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>In article <[email protected]>, Hirsty's wrote:
>>
>> Good Luck, let us know how you get on as I might have a go myself
>>
>
>Well, the intercooler has now been removed, flushed and refitted. All hoses
>were wiped out at the same time. I found a container of 1-1-1 trike in the
>shed that I got from I don't remember where years ago so I used that to do
>the flushing.
>
>The solvent came out very dirty and left what I could see of the inside of
>the intercoler looking spotless, whereas before it was covered in a thick
>black oily film.
>
>
>Net result? Absolutely no difference whatsoever!
>
>I'm a bit disappointed as it seemed as if a lot of muck was washed out of
>the intercooler.
>
>Now I've just got to get someone to get me an Allisport one for my birthday
>next month to make up for it.

the word on TDis is that you don't gain a lot from biggering the intercooler
unless you plan to up the boost as well; conversely, if you want to up the
boost, you need to upgrade the intercooler to keep the temperatures
reasonable.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
Boswell's "Johnson".

In article <[email protected]>, Austin Shackles wrote:
>
> the word on TDis is that you don't gain a lot from biggering the intercooler
> unless you plan to up the boost as well; conversely, if you want to up the
> boost, you need to upgrade the intercooler to keep the temperatures
> reasonable.

The guy I spoke to on the Allisport stand at Billing reckoned upto 20%
increase with a little pump tweaking and their standard intercooler which
fits into the same space as the standard one.

Only problem was it costs £280. :-(

--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.

On or around 23 Jul 2004 09:01:23 GMT, Simon Barr <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>In article <[email protected]>, Austin Shackles wrote:
>>
>> the word on TDis is that you don't gain a lot from biggering the intercooler
>> unless you plan to up the boost as well; conversely, if you want to up the
>> boost, you need to upgrade the intercooler to keep the temperatures
>> reasonable.
>
>The guy I spoke to on the Allisport stand at Billing reckoned upto 20%
>increase with a little pump tweaking and their standard intercooler which
>fits into the same space as the standard one.
>
>Only problem was it costs £280. :-(

There's always a catch, innit. it might be that their intercooler is more
free-flowing or something, but there's a definite limit to how much
pump-tweaking you can do without making it smoke, unless you also up the
boost to get more oxygen in.

I did once speculate about adding O2 from a welding bottle, 'til I worked
out how much you'd have to add... start looking at how much air goes into
the engine: 2.5 litre requires 1.25 litres per revolution as a normally
aspirated thing, presuming a not-too-restrictive inlet tract. run it at say
3000 rpm, you get 3750 litres per minute, at approx 20% oxygen in dry air,
which is 750 litres per minute (if you want that in more conventional
mass-flow-rate units, it's about 28 cfm)

'course, the air's not dry, so you can take off a bit for the water vapour
content, though I'm damned if I know how much. But to make a useful
increase in the available oxygen, you'd have to add something in the region
of at least 100l/min to the inlet tract at 3000 rpm, I reckon. now I don;t
know ho much in litres the big O2 bottles hold, they are, it has to be said,
at about 200 bar, so they have 200 times as many litres as they appear to
contain. The cylinder might have a capacity say 100 litres... in which
case, you'd get 200 minutes-worth at 100l/min. which ain't very long...

granted, at lower revs you'd not need so much to get the same percentage
increase.



--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"My centre is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent.
I shall attack. - Marshal Foch (1851 - 1929)

In article <[email protected]>, Austin Shackles wrote:
>
> There's always a catch, innit. it might be that their intercooler is more
> free-flowing or something, but there's a definite limit to how much
> pump-tweaking you can do without making it smoke, unless you also up the
> boost to get more oxygen in.
>

He told me that the end tanks on their version are smaller than the LR
ones as well as being made from sheet as opposed to cast. The thinner
material and smaller end tanks means they can fit in more core so you
get more cooling.



--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.

Simon Hi again,

The main reason I am using diesel fuel is because it is readily available
and extremely cheaper than the LR stuff.

I do not thing using diesel will harm the engine as the engine runs on
diesel and fresh air.
Exactly the kind of thing that will come out of the intercooler after you
fit it in the car following its cleaning.

I do take extra care to remove as much as possible of the diesel fuel used
for cleaning the intercooler before fitting it back.

I clean the intercooler of both my discos since 1996 like that and have not
yet had a problem.

Water based solvent is something that I have not yet used and can not
comment.

Take care
Pantelis

P.S. As for using the "dirty" diesel that is left over from cleaning the
intercooler I would propose you don't do it mainly because of the fact that
it is dirty. This kind of dirt must mainly be thick engine oil with a high
carbon content so it must not be harmfull to your engine but on the other
hand it is always better to keep the engine fed and lubricated with as clean
fuel and air as possible.
"Hirsty's" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> LR said Genklene, which if I remember from a past posting is simply an
> organic solvent that quickly evaporates from the ic when it has been
flushed
> out. I would imagine they supply it or a substitute still. You could use
> almost any organic solvent that evaportes similarly, providing you are
aware
> of the hazardous nature of most organic solvents.
> Personally if I were to do it I would stick to the LR product simply
because
> it should be safe to use and effective.
> I've got a degree in chemistry and a very healthy respect for solvents, so
> I'm a bit paranoid.
>
> May be worth trying an indipendant garage and see what they use, I think
> thats what I would do.
> I suspect that whatever is used, if it is effective it will cost.
>
> Incidentally the flush is part of the maintenance schedule listed by LR
for
> 300 Tdi
>
> Good Luck, let us know how you get on as I might have a go myself
>
> John H
>
> > But what should I use? I was thinking of removing the intercooler and
> > filling it with some sort of degreaser and leaving it overnight for the
> > degreaser to disolve whatever may be in there.
> >
> > Anyone have any suggestions?
> >
>
>

Hé there,

For a TD5, it is sheduled to be done at 80.000 km
The product mentioned in the manual is Unicorn Chemicals 'C' solvent.
In Belgium, it would cost around 69 ? (From Land Rover) for 5 Liter.

Lieven

"Hirsty's" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
> LR said Genklene, which if I remember from a past posting is simply an
> organic solvent that quickly evaporates from the ic when it has been
flushed
> out. I would imagine they supply it or a substitute still. You could use
> almost any organic solvent that evaportes similarly, providing you are
aware
> of the hazardous nature of most organic solvents.
> Personally if I were to do it I would stick to the LR product simply
because
> it should be safe to use and effective.
> I've got a degree in chemistry and a very healthy respect for solvents, so
> I'm a bit paranoid.
>
> May be worth trying an indipendant garage and see what they use, I think
> thats what I would do.
> I suspect that whatever is used, if it is effective it will cost.
>
> Incidentally the flush is part of the maintenance schedule listed by LR
for
> 300 Tdi
>
> Good Luck, let us know how you get on as I might have a go myself
>
> John H
>
> > But what should I use? I was thinking of removing the intercooler and
> > filling it with some sort of degreaser and leaving it overnight for the
> > degreaser to disolve whatever may be in there.
> >
> > Anyone have any suggestions?
> >
>
>

Simon Barr wrote:

> It's a while since I looked at the service record I have but yes, I think
> that's who it was. The 110 spent its whole working life around Inverness
> I think.

I would hate to think what the guys at Halfords Inverness did to it, AA 110s
must be pretty much the only Land Rovers they ever see!

> Are they (M&D) not so good then?

They don't have a good reputation, no. Overpriced non-customer orientated
not particularly knowlegable etc. they are the last place I would go to get
advice about anything LR related in Inverness.

Whereabouts are you if your LR was in service up here?

Regards

William MacLeod

On or around Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:13:32 +0300, "Pantelis Giamarellos"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Diesels have a tendency to soil the intercooler's internals with lots of
>black oily and sticky stuff.

how'd they manage that then?

AIUI, you go inlet > filter > turbo > intercooler > engine.

so where does the gunge come from? Unless the turbo's dodgy?


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Too Busy: Your mind is like a motorway. Sometimes it can be jammed by
too much traffic. Avoid the jams by never using your mind on a
Bank Holiday weekend.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

In article <[email protected]>, Pantelis Giamarellos wrote:
>
> If the intercooler is very dirty you will DEFINATELY feel an improvement
> both on performance and on faster spooling up of the turbo.
>
>

I like the sound of that! The 110 was owned by the AA before I bought it
so it has been supposedly well maintained. All but the last few services
were carried out by a Land Rover dealer in Inverness so if they were
following the recommended schedules then the intercooler should have been
flushed before.

What is a bit worrying is that the last few services were done by Halfords!
I think that the AA own Halfords or t'other way round, still worrying though.


Thanks for everybodys suggestions, with a bit of luck I'll have enough tuits
at the weekend to attempt this.

--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.

Simon Barr wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, Pantelis Giamarellos wrote:
>>
>> If the intercooler is very dirty you will DEFINATELY feel an improvement
>> both on performance and on faster spooling up of the turbo.
>>
>>
>
> I like the sound of that! The 110 was owned by the AA before I bought it
> so it has been supposedly well maintained. All but the last few services
> were carried out by a Land Rover dealer in Inverness so if they were
> following the recommended schedules then the intercooler should have been
> flushed before.
>
> What is a bit worrying is that the last few services were done by
> Halfords! I think that the AA own Halfords or t'other way round, still
> worrying though.
>

Halfords Autoclinics (The garages attached to the stores) were bought by the
AA a long while ago. They actually do a pretty decent job most of the time,
however they aren't fully tooled garages as they can't do little things
like reset service interval indicators on newer cars.

Never actually had much bother with my local one with the exception of them
deciding that a TD5 disco was too close to the limits for their ramp and
asking me to take it elsewhere for brake work.

To be honest, I'd be more worried about it having been serviced by Macrae
and Dick (that was who the Inverness dealer was, wasn't it?)


P.

In article <[email protected]>, Paul S. Brown wrote:
>>
>
> Halfords Autoclinics (The garages attached to the stores) were bought by the
> AA a long while ago. They actually do a pretty decent job most of the time,
> however they aren't fully tooled garages as they can't do little things
> like reset service interval indicators on newer cars.
>

I suppose in reality they couldn't employ the same level of muppets they seem
to have in their stores.

> Never actually had much bother with my local one with the exception of them
> deciding that a TD5 disco was too close to the limits for their ramp and
> asking me to take it elsewhere for brake work.
>
> To be honest, I'd be more worried about it having been serviced by Macrae
> and Dick (that was who the Inverness dealer was, wasn't it?)
>
>

It's a while since I looked at the service record I have but yes, I think
that's who it was. The 110 spent its whole working life around Inverness
I think.

Are they (M&D) not so good then?

--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.

In article <[email protected]>, William MacLeod wrote:
> Simon Barr wrote:
>
>
> I would hate to think what the guys at Halfords Inverness did to it, AA 110s
> must be pretty much the only Land Rovers they ever see!
>

Well someone in its past managed to strip the transfer box drain plug
threads as I found out a couple of weeks ago. It's now held in by some
PTFE tape, gakset sealant and bit of luck.

Do you get a lot of AA 110s up there then? I've never seen one on the road
anywhere. Do they all have winches fitted or did I get lucky?

>> Are they (M&D) not so good then?
>
> They don't have a good reputation, no. Overpriced non-customer orientated
> not particularly knowlegable etc. they are the last place I would go to get
> advice about anything LR related in Inverness.
>

Oh well, they can't have been too bad as it's still going after 150,000mls.

> Whereabouts are you if your LR was in service up here?
>

Nowhere near Scotland, I live in Hertfordshire but I got the 110 through
the Defender Centre in Stourbridge.

--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.

Simon Barr wrote:

> Well someone in its past managed to strip the transfer box drain plug
> threads as I found out a couple of weeks ago. It's now held in by some
> PTFE tape, gakset sealant and bit of luck.

Oh dear.

> Do you get a lot of AA 110s up there then? I've never seen one on the
> road anywhere. Do they all have winches fitted or did I get lucky?

Most of them are probably 110s - maybe the odd van. The AA use a lot of
local garages here for recovery work. I occasionally see perhaps 3 of them
sitting at the Halfords in Inverness.

I think they all have winches (superwinch(?)), do you have an anderson
connector at the front for connecting jump leads as well? and the 8 spokes?
The 110 station wagon configuration with 90 van sides instead of windows in
the back?

> Nowhere near Scotland, I live in Hertfordshire but I got the 110 through
> the Defender Centre in Stourbridge.

Surprised they didn't sell it up here. Is it rotten, or can you just not
see the rot yet?

Regards

William MacLeod

In article <[email protected]>, William MacLeod wrote:
> Simon Barr wrote:
>
>> Do you get a lot of AA 110s up there then? I've never seen one on the
>> road anywhere. Do they all have winches fitted or did I get lucky?
>
> I think they all have winches (superwinch(?)), do you have an anderson
> connector at the front for connecting jump leads as well? and the 8 spokes?
> The 110 station wagon configuration with 90 van sides instead of windows in
> the back?
>

Mines got a Warn 8274, jump lead connectors front and rear and wolf wheels.

Its got 5 seats with van sides where the bench seats would be on a CSW. There
is a roller shutter comnpartment on the LHS of the rear and its all ply lined.

Oh and its got an Eberspacher too but it packed up just in time for the
cold weather earlier in the year and all it does now is create a smoke screen.
Must sort that for winter.

You can see pictures of how it looked when I first went to see it at:

http://www.sbarr.demon.co.uk/110/

It looks pretty much like that now except it's now all yellow and the lightbar
is in my garage.

>
> Surprised they didn't sell it up here. Is it rotten, or can you just not
> see the rot yet?
>

IIRC previous keeper info on the V5 is some AA dept in Birmingham which may
explain how it ended up at the Defender centre.

I hope it's not rotten. There are some problems with electrolytic corrosion
where the two outer rear seats bolt on, the ally panels having been holed in
places. The chassis was waxolyed in the past but has now mostly come of now
it been jet washed a couple of times. The rear cross member is on the to-do
list for painting and waxoyling.


Hopefully with some waxoyl and paint applied in the right places it'll last
a few years yet

--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.