Finally the Dreaded H/G.... so DIY or Garage ?

Hi

after all the other niggles with the wife Freelander Mk1 1.8 petrol body in VGC, low milage and looking looked after, it started losing water, nothing major just a small noticeable amount, then the other day she rang me at work as it had blew a pipe off ( still not over heated ) just gushing water, she had topped it up and it just all gushed out...

the RAC called and said 'scrap it' its a known fact and its old.... so as its not boiled over, it starts but is missing a bit, and needs i suspect now the HG done... its not been driven far since as usually the kids are with her and if it fails again on the same fault the RAC will be a bit ...hmmmm to say the least

but to be fair £180 for every part needed inc belts , fluids, thermostat, and oil.and ML HG ( unless anyone knows of a supplier for all this cheaper)

i am now at the point of purchasing and either

A) doing myself ( done plenty HG before but not done 1 in about 15 year all 8v ) or

B) buying parts and sending a garage

or C) there are numerous offers of HG repair with 12 month warranty but the hidden extras of mileage as they drive to me, and if (yeah IF) they say the head is goosed they charge a refurb ( last guys head skimmed and mine for the next mug i don't want to be in this boat)

SO!

what pit falls are there for the HG before i start as its on the drive as we don't have a garage to put it in, and how much is the average head skim now ( as been that long since i had one if at all as it was all a steel rule across the surfaces in my day )

I have a fairly extensive tool kit, a weekend and knowledge, and a haynes, so £180 and a weekend to fix as long as i don't need any funny tools ( and do i go for the remote thermostat with the money saved DOES it actually help)

thanks for any input, as outside doing a HG on the drive this time year i would prefer to keep the skin on my knuckles .... al help / comments / assistance if in area tea/ coffee/ food for help anything to get the old girl back on the road cheap

Head will need to be checked to ensure it's 'true'. If there wasn't an overheating 'event' it may well be good. Clean out the coolant holes in the head to improve coolant flow. They are often left partially blocked from manufacturer.

Parts:HG use a straight edge and check liner heights. If all are even[ish] and above the block a good MLS, if they are uneven or level with the block then a elastopolymer gasket may be a better bet. I fitted the later as my liners are uneven - Payen BW 750.
Std h'bolts if fitting the elastopolymer gasket. If you choose to fitted the latest MLS you will need the uprated H' bolts.
Will you also fit the strengthened bottom oil rail? recommended
Gaskets: Head [of course] inlet, exhaust, cam cover and exhaust down pipe.
Water pump - advisable
Cam belt and tensioner - advisable
Thermostat - advisable perhaps a PRT thermostat?
new PAS belt & a/c - alt belt

Remote thermostat is intended to even out coolant and temp in the engine - reduce thermal shock effect. 'Gut' the old thermostat and refit it to the housing when fitting a PRT or you can buy a ring like thing to go in the original housing.

Latest HG, uprated H'bolts ate intended to give a greater clamping effect.

MLS gaskets can [ and have ] leaked. Scrutinise liner heights carefully.

Coolant loss can be a faulty coolant bottle too. Have a careful look at that too. Check for crazing or cracks in the plastic - esp' under the yellow ring label.

It's not a frighteningly hard job and there is a huge sense of satisfaction when it starts up fits pop!

Hope that helps.

Look forward to reading of your success - let us all know - and photos please!

I would sue the RAC as they are idiots , your wifes car can be fixed we were in the same position several years ago but at the time I was not well due to my illness so she took it to the garage and had it done but she chose a independent LR garage she found out later she could have got it done at half the price, and now it is still going strong ,it is a 1998 1800 and at the last MOT NO advisories ,she does only go work and back and the odd time go out. have you any oil in the water and as you have done head gaskets before you should know the symptoms , if you do it your self get the multi layer head gasket but be fore all that check the header tank they can crack and loose water but you say blown a hose off so do a good check also do not move the liners. also follow HTR advise.hope this helps

thanks guys

it will be a full kit a ML head gasket, water pump and thermostat, suddenly the penny drops... the engine is very similar to that of an ongoing first motor the Skoda Estelle, this had issues similar to this and liners.... nice to see technology has progressed ( in those days the best i could so was skim, clamp and drill a hole into the thermostat to give a flow at all times)

so to recap...

yes i disagree with the RAC as it can be fixed as from what i see its the oem HG

all new parts will be put on as a matter of cause to stop me having to do again as service / failures.

the head needs to be checked for true AND its liners checked (is it a washer nut washer bolt trick to clamp them back down again or do the cylinders drop?)

whilst most of engine is in the boot, check pipes etc for other losses and replace whilst head is being skimmed.

bolt back together and should be all ok again....

I've found the thermostat has pressure / temp issues on warm up and as my wife drives more stop start i gather this has been the culprit

http://www.mgfcar.de/hgf/freelander_0026.pdf

so a weekend to fix plus skim time get it back on the road again and it is a cam belt change at the same time so not really a lost cause as long as the matter is resolved for a 12- 18 months as i bet she'll want an upgrade thru the range by then

Get the cam locking tool as it makes things easier for about £5 Rover + MG 16v K Series Engine Camshaft Timing Locking Tool MG MGF MGZT ZS + | eBay and yes you can use the bolts and spacers to hold down the liners but if you take the head off with the crank in the safe position you don't need them as you won't be turning the crank .

Put a new water pump in too .

Windy gun for crank nut is easiest , Torx socket for head bolts .

Don't skim if the head is flat.........

gt4thug said:

is it a washer nut washer bolt trick to clamp them back down again or do the cylinders drop?

Click to expand...

All pistons should be halfway up the bore, that's the safe position. Liner clamps are the old head bolts with a washer under the head, a 100mm length of suitable metal pipe and another washer below that. Lower into H'bolt hole and thread into the oil rail. The lower washer should cover the liner. Tweek the bolt up a wee bit.

what size torx is it off hand as i don't want to start and stop and go to halfrauds to get a socket as i didn't have a correct sized one

think thats all bases covered

thanks again guys will keep you posted

gt4thug said:

what size torx is it off hand as i don't want to start and stop and go to halfrauds to get a socket as i didn't have a correct sized one

think thats all bases covered

thanks again guys will keep you posted

Click to expand...

14mm torx

I have used an E12 socket ......

I'd go for a 1/2" drive one like this : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Teng-Torx...757?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4184f3f90d

If the head bolts are ok you are often better off using the original decent quality ones than cheap after market bolts - there is a spec somewher of the max length of them but they are rarely over stretched .

I believe that over stretching is not the issue. The bolts are designed to stretch when being torqued down. Yes they can be reused if carefully checked and measured against makers or Land Rover's spec's.

A new set of bolts is cheap insurance to ensure a perfect and long lasting repair.

What htr said.
I wouldn't just fit the MLS gasket without checking the liner hights very carefully. They must be within a very tight tolerance or the new HG will leak. If there is any doubt about the liners, fit the Payen elastopolimer gasket instead. It's the best sealing gasket available.

A quick google found this video of one being replaced in an MGF

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdk7RTEnyjE

There are others around too as well as plenty of detailed written instructions. I replaced the head gasket in my F by following instructions off the internet but thankfully I caught it early before any overheating so had no problems with warping. I didn't bother stripping the head though, just a quick clean, check and back on.

Not sure about his method of tightening the bolts though.

whilst looking to buy the kit, I've had the blurb due to high tolerances , the MLS can fail, is that because of warp or the fact if you clamp and its not needed it will fail ? or is it the blurb to scare to buy a build up from a company ? ( which was where it was from )

gt4thug said:

whilst looking to buy the kit, I've had the blurb due to high tolerances , the MLS can fail, is that because of warp or the fact if you clamp and its not needed it will fail ? or is it the blurb to scare to buy a build up from a company ? ( which was where it was from )

Click to expand...

Not a scare tactic no. The MLS gasket isn't as good at dealing with variable tolerances in the liners. If I'm building an engine, I tend to use the elastopolimer gasket, simply because they seal so well. They last 60K miles so I can't see a problem with them. Treated as a service item, it's fine.

right I've got it to a water pump and a tensioner & belt

all the gaskets and a choice of either HG depending on the look of the cylinders / head but theres little in it for the price of the build up ( order whilst heads being skimmed )

waiting for remote thermostat to get back to me ( but the plastic canister type Vernet ) i was under the impression they are a moulded seal item ? or does it unscrew ? as the Haynes manual only shows the later type and checking thermostat, as if i can't get a remote kit for build up i'd like to investigate the replacement or the thermostat and at least put a cooler one in for mean time until the replacement arrives so we both have vehicles on the road.

The vernet thermostat is not suitable for the freelander i tried using one of these when i replaced my head gasket and it didn't open in time the coolant was about to blow so i switched the engine off then monitored the coolant temperature on my autel the temperature kept on rising above the opening temperature of thermostat and it didn't open, i replaced it with a second vernet but the same happened, the third thermostat from a different manufacturer also did the same, these thermostats are a generic part also listed for the honda engine and may work well on a honda car they don't on the freelander.

You need the grey bodied thermostat that opens at 82 degrees and as the soft spring.


There are posts on the forum regarding the thermostat from when i had my problems using the vernet thermostat.

well thats all the parts ordered inc a few spares and tools that i didn't have i now do to do the job... will await the weekend of 'Doom n Gloom' and hopefully a silver lining of a happy bunny a.k.a the wife