Excessive smoke MoT failure

jwrw · Dec 19, 2023

Hi, everyone. My 1986 110 (200TDi) has failed its MoT due to “emissions unable to be completed (excessive smoke)”.

The garage that did the test said it could be anything from a diesel injector to a turbo problem to needing a new engine. They think it’s diesel smoke rather than oil. They’ve suggested getting someone who knows more about Defenders to diagnose the problem. Are there any obvious faults I could look for myself, please?

And can anyone recommend a mechanic for this within reasonable distance of Cambridge, please? I know of Wicken 4x4 but am unlikely to use them again after some dangerous work earlier this year.

Thanks very much.

Turboman · Dec 19, 2023

jwrw said:
Hi, everyone. My 1986 110 (200TDi) has failed its MoT due to “emissions unable to be completed (excessive smoke)”.

The garage that did the test said it could be anything from a diesel injector to a turbo problem to needing a new engine. They think it’s diesel smoke rather than oil. They’ve suggested getting someone who knows more about Defenders to diagnose the problem. Are there any obvious faults I could look for myself, please?

And can anyone recommend a mechanic for this within reasonable distance of Cambridge, please? I know of Wicken 4x4 but am unlikely to use them again after some dangerous work earlier this year.

Thanks very much.

Can't really recommend any garages, round there or anywhere else.

If it is excess diesel, the injectors could be a good shout. You could just remove them and send them off to Diesel Bob for service.
Not a difficult job, and he doesn't charge a fortune either.
Injector service can never do any harm, even if there are other problems as well.

If your engine was worn out, I would expect to see smoke from burning oil, not diesel.

jwrw · Dec 19, 2023

Turboman said:
Can't really recommend any garages, round there or anywhere else.

If it is excess diesel, the injectors could be a good shout. You could just remove them and send them off to Diesel Bob for service.
Not a difficult job, and he doesn't charge a fortune either.
Injector service can never do any harm, even if there are other problems as well.

If your engine was worn out, I would expect to see smoke from burning oil, not diesel.

Thanks, will check out Diesel Bob.

lynall · Dec 19, 2023

What measurement did their smoke machine show?
Tried it with the air filter removed?
Does it smoke when you drive it, especially at night?
Couple of spanners will get that smoke right down, will have to wind it back after test as it will not pull the skin off a rice pudding!

jwrw · Dec 19, 2023

lynall said:
What measurement did their smoke machine show?
Tried it with the air filter removed?
Does it smoke when you drive it, especially at night?
Couple of spanners will get that smoke right down, will have to wind it back after test as it will not pull the skin off a rice pudding!

Thanks. The failure certificate doesn’t have a number on it. I think maybe they just failed it on visible smoke. I’ve been aware of it smoking when I start the engine and on acceleration.

I can look at the air filter. What would it mean if removing the air filter changed the smokiness?

I think you’re talking about adjusting something to get the smoke down. What would that be please?

Thanks again for your help!

Turboman · Dec 19, 2023

jwrw said:
Thanks. The failure certificate doesn’t have a number on it. I think maybe they just failed it on visible smoke. I’ve been aware of it smoking when I start the engine and on acceleration.

I can look at the air filter. What would it mean if removing the air filter changed the smokiness?

I think you’re talking about adjusting something to get the smoke down. What would that be please?

Thanks again for your help!

I think if it is really smoking, a lot of garages just abandon the test, so as not to knacker the machine.

If your air filter is very dirty, it may not pass enough air, so removing it will help, but it may be better to change the filter element.

I suspect he means adjusting the fuel screw on the injector pump, which is OK for him, he is a diesel fitter.
But as you aren't, I would leave it alone, to be honest.

v8250 · Dec 19, 2023

Before starting any adjustment, did you add diesel cleaner to the tank, take the 200tdi for an Italian Service, and then take the fully up to temp 200tdi for MOT test? If not, it's worth doing.

Advisory as above re' injectors at Diesel Bob is excellent + how far is Banham, Norfolk, from you? If not too far take the tratter to Glencoyne https://www.glencoyne.co.uk/

jwrw · Dec 19, 2023

v8250 said:
Before starting any adjustment, did you add diesel cleaner to the tank, take the 200tdi for an Italian Service, and then take the fully up to temp 200tdi for MOT test? If not, it's worth doing.

Advisory as above re' injectors at Diesel Bob is excellent + how far is Banham, Norfolk, from you? If not too far take the tratter to Glencoyne https://www.glencoyne.co.uk/

Thanks! Will do that. Banham is an hour away. I’ll check out Glencoyne as well as Diesel Bob. Appreciate the suggestion.

Turboman · Dec 19, 2023

v8250 said:
Before starting any adjustment, did you add diesel cleaner to the tank, take the 200tdi for an Italian Service, and then take the fully up to temp 200tdi for MOT test? If not, it's worth doing.

Advisory as above re' injectors at Diesel Bob is excellent + how far is Banham, Norfolk, from you? If not too far take the tratter to Glencoyne https://www.glencoyne.co.uk/

Additive might be a good shout too.

As is Glencoyne, but he may have a massive wait time for new work, he is always very busy.

biketeacherdave · Dec 19, 2023

The additive is just kerosene so shove a good few litres in your tank at a fraction of the cost of snake oil additives.

Run the tank to almost empty then go 50/50 derv/kerosene that will clean out your injectors

Turboman · Dec 19, 2023

biketeacherdave said:
The additive is just kerosene so shove a good few litres in your tank at a fraction of the cost of snake oil additives.

Run the tank to almost empty then go 50/50 derv/kerosene that will clean out your injectors

A bottle of Diesel Magic costs a bit over a quid.

And putting kerosene in the tank is going to get you in trouble if you get diesel dipped, and probably not going to do your injection pump any favours either.

biketeacherdave · Dec 19, 2023

It never harmed any of mine nor my mates freelander cured his smoke issue and never run so well.

v8250 · Dec 19, 2023

jwrw said:
Hi, everyone. My 1986 110 (200TDi) has failed its MoT due to “emissions unable to be completed (excessive smoke)”.

The garage that did the test said it could be anything from a diesel injector to a turbo problem to needing a new engine. They think it’s diesel smoke rather than oil. They’ve suggested getting someone who knows more about Defenders to diagnose the problem. Are there any obvious faults I could look for myself, please?

And can anyone recommend a mechanic for this within reasonable distance of Cambridge, please? I know of Wicken 4x4 but am unlikely to use them again after some dangerous work earlier this year.

Thanks very much.

All the above aside, how many miles has this engine done and when was the last time you gave it a proper full on change everything service...and a thorough clean through?

jwrw · Dec 19, 2023

v8250 said:
All the above aside, how many miles has this engine done and when was the last time you gave it a proper full on change everything service...and a thorough clean through?

The odometer says 213,000 or something like that but I believe this is the second or third engine since 1986 so I don’t think the number means much. I bought it in June and haven’t yet done a service. When you say “thorough clean through” do you mean with the diesel cleaner people have been recommending in this thread?

(I think it wasn’t smoking much/at all when I bought it, maybe just a bit on starting the engine)

Thanks very much.

v8250 · Dec 19, 2023

jwrw said:
The odometer says 213,000 or something like that but I believe this is the second or third engine since 1986 so I don’t think the number means much. I bought it in June and haven’t yet done a service. When you say “thorough clean through” do you mean with the diesel cleaner people have been recommending in this thread?

(I think it wasn’t smoking much/at all when I bought it, maybe just a bit on starting the engine)

Thanks very much.

Yes, diesel cleaner + injectors, the whole fuel system. Then complete a thorough all fluids, all filters, all belts and pulleys +++ service. When this is done and you know all is clean/serviced and timing set up correctly then re-evaluate the smoke issue. Doing this separates the potential issue of mechanical wear. As note, all 200tdi's give a small amount of black smoke puff on start up.

tottot · Dec 19, 2023

The smoke at start up with a 200 is just the auto excess fuel working, one reason they are good starters. Should last only a couple of seconds. edit v8250 got there first.

kermit_rr · Dec 19, 2023

First thing is the easy one, check the air filter

biketeacherdave · Dec 20, 2023

It's a tdi if your worried about getting dipped with kerosene then run it on neat veg oil thinned down with 5% petrol that will clean out everything not do any harm and won't smoke

300bhp/ton · Dec 20, 2023

jwrw said:
Hi, everyone. My 1986 110 (200TDi) has failed its MoT due to “emissions unable to be completed (excessive smoke)”.

The garage that did the test said it could be anything from a diesel injector to a turbo problem to needing a new engine. They think it’s diesel smoke rather than oil. They’ve suggested getting someone who knows more about Defenders to diagnose the problem. Are there any obvious faults I could look for myself, please?

And can anyone recommend a mechanic for this within reasonable distance of Cambridge, please? I know of Wicken 4x4 but am unlikely to use them again after some dangerous work earlier this year.

Thanks very much.

Does it smoke? Before doing anything check this. Smoke on start up is perfectly normal and expected. This is how these engines start.

Does it then smoke when you rev it?

lynall · Dec 20, 2023

When my 200 is going for test I always take it for a good long drive get there just before the test so it's hot Ifor the smoke test

Excessive smoke MoT failure

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