Educate me on swivel balls and pins......

I have some bump steer and its been suggested to me by several people that its likely swivel preload after checking things like panhard bushes etc and finding no problem.

Trouble is i am confused.
I have a 1991 defender, that should be bush and pin arrangement right?

So does the top pin wear and need replacing or just the bush or does the bottom bearing wear? What exactly is the setup?

I have read stuff saying the bearing will be worn, and need changing, but have also read that the pin will be worn and need changing.

I have also read that the shims can be taken out and then the swivel ball 'fish scaled' until i get 14lbs/ft pull.

Anyway to test the bearing 'in situ' i.e. if its nice and smooth can i just try removing a shim to tighten it all up?

Also workshop book says set the preload with out the seal fitted, can i jsut unbolt and remove the seal (leave it hanging on the axle) then set the preload and then refit the old seal?

My swivels dont leak, and arent corroded so want to avoid stripping unless i have to.....

thanks

flat said:

Trouble is i am confused.

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Me too - I blame the weather

flat said:

I have a 1991 defender, that should be bush and pin arrangement right?

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probably, but the axle may have been changed, so anyone's guess I know this is obvious, but you'll know when you take it to bits.... or you might find a serial number on the axle which can be cross referenced on-line...

flat said:

Anyway to test the bearing 'in situ' i.e. if its nice and smooth can i just try removing a shim to tighten it all up?

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Yep, it has worked for me - but carefully check the bearing to avoid issues..( either rough surfaces on the pin/bush arrangement - or bearing races about to let go....etc.. ).

flat said:

Also workshop book says set the preload with out the seal fitted, can i jsut unbolt and remove the seal (leave it hanging on the axle) then set the preload and then refit the old seal?

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IMHO, Yes. But ...I know what you say is the right way, but, for once I don't often bother removing the seal - IMHO the most important thing is that the preload is the same on both sides - and also IMHO, the preload just needs to be about XXlbs ... you soon know if it's wrong . Also, if you remove the seal, not only does it let the oil or grease out, but it can also let crud in ... and this won't end well....

IIRC SaintV8 did a good video tutorial on rebuilding the swivels, and there also loads of landrover toolbox vids on the tube of you...

cool cheers man, its the right axle for the vehicle and hasnt been changed.
Will get it up on stands and check the preload

No probs, just be methodical about it all ... the swivels are "scary" to the uninitiated, but once you've done one ... you'll "get it" so to speak - a bit like the first time you change a timing belt....

which bits is more likely to wear on the earlier axles, the pin or the bearing?

Look at the top pin(2bolts) there may be a few shims there. Just by removing 1 can tighten the pre load up. Just watch the brake pipe which is attached to the top.
Also before stripping/rebuilding use the removed shim to make sure you have the correct pin.

Kits come with pins bearings & shims. Easy to do

4 bolts?
Only 2 Shirley.

Flossie said:

4 bolts?
Only 2 Shirley.

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Sorry Yep just 2 ..... 4 on a series

Flossie said:

4 bolts?
Only 2 Shirley.

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Thank god for that. I was even more confused for a minute there....

I could have just edited it out and made out @Flossie was mad

I’ve refurbished my axles. The original balls were in good condition but new bearings, stub axles, pin and bush. I don’t recall parts being too expensive and that included the recommended timkin bearings. Preload was frustrating to set and adjust as one of the bolts holds the brake line but patience will see you thru it. I can’t remember if I had the seal on or off, probably off and before filling with grease. Only reason I did it was the big seal was leaking and I’d put ep90 in with the old grease to top up.

Although there's a lot of talk on here about using a spring balance, the condition of the bearings, whether roller or plain bush is pretty obvious when you jack up and start manipulating the hub. Get the steering rods off so you're not confusing the situation with resistance from the steering damper or other hub. What you want is no looseness or wobble or clunk - the bearings should be nice and tight. There should be a little resistance which is even throughout the travel from lock to lock. No notches, or free bits versus stiff bits. In particular, they sometimes develop a notch in the straight ahead position. The weight of the car is taken on the tapered roller at the bottom so that's well worth changing. The one at the top, whether it be a plain bush or a roller bearing on later models just holds things steady. After you've done the job and driven around for a while, check again and maybe take another shim out as the bearings might have settled a bit more into their seats and the machining marks will have worn off the wear surfaces. Having done this to both Series and Defender vehicles I'd say it is one of the best ways of improving the handling of a Land Rover. The steering feels more precise and steady at speed. You'll be glad you did it.