Eas Problems

GawaineT said:

Oh, my mistake, I thought the Valeo stuff was French, is it not?

Anyway, the whole P38 built to a bad spec still stands
My point is if they had spent a few pence more on components, maybe we wouldn't all see these issues, quite so often.

However, I do accept that on a vehicle as old as these, mines a '96 after all, you do expect a few issues.

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Valeo is French, Lucas has always been known to me as "Prince of Darkeness"
Lucas was certainly taken over a long time ago, not sure if it was the Yanks though.

According to internet research...Lucas merged with American Company Varity to become LucasVarity....and is now owened by a Michigan Company called TRW

Saint.V8 said:

According to internet research...Lucas merged with American Company Varity to become LucasVarity....and is now owened by a Michigan Company called TRW

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As far as i am aware Lucas were the first company to offer exchange electrical units. Known as Lucas B90 exchange.

wammers said:

As far as i am aware Lucas were the first company to offer exchange electrical units. Known as Lucas B90 exchange.

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They needed to, the originals failed so often

Right an update;
As suggested got it up to high, pulled out the delay relay and came out this morning to the enclosed picture

Guess that is fairly conclusively spring related, i do remember some time ago hearing a one off hiss briefly from that corner but nothing since.

Think I've found something else, the collet and pipe going into the top of the air dryer seem a bit wobbly and if i move the pope even a tiny bit it leaks, so new dryer cartridge and possibly pipe?

GawaineT said:

Think I've found something else, the collet and pipe going into the top of the air dryer seem a bit wobbly and if i move the pope even a tiny bit it leaks, so new dryer cartridge and possibly pipe?

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Drier won't cause bags to deflate. There is only pressure in it when tank is being filled. Or when bags are being exhausted.

I put the relay back fired it up and it dropped to access height and then lifted itself to high in around two minutes, where its stayed. Now i don't know if the receiver is full or not, but that time didn't seem too bad, but the front was i think as follows before starting.

O/s approx motorway height perhaps a bit less

N/s between normal and motorway

I was thinking of dropping it to normal height giving the bags a dousing with soap and looking for leaks again.

At this point i don't know if its airbag or valveblock and I'm no expert either

wammers said:

Drier won't cause bags to deflate. There is only pressure in it when tank is being filled. Or when bags are being exhausted.

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Ok, so i guess that would just make the compressor have to work harder but only when filling tank, so back to my theory of a frontend leak somewhere, at this point I'm beginning to wonder if i should just replace bags and pipework on front, but would like to rule out valveblock somehow if i need to?

GawaineT said:

Ok, so i guess that would just make the compressor have to work harder but only when filling tank, so back to my theory of a frontend leak somewhere, at this point I'm beginning to wonder if i should just replace bags and pipework on front, but would like to rule out valveblock somehow if i need to?

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Take out exhaust silencer. Set car at standard. Allow compressor to run until it stops. Switch off ignition. Open a door. Wait a few minutes for things to settle. Put your finger over exhaust port. Check if any air is coming out. If not, all is well with valve block. If air is coming out that can be stopped by finger pressure one of the solenoid valves to a bag is leaking or the small O ring at base of valve. If air is coming out that builds pressure and cannot be easily stopped by finger pressure. NRV1 is leaking. That is the valve in the block that holds pressure within the tank.

GawaineT said:

Ok, so i guess that would just make the compressor have to work harder but only when filling tank, so back to my theory of a frontend leak somewhere, at this point I'm beginning to wonder if i should just replace bags and pipework on front, but would like to rule out valveblock somehow if i need to?

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Unlikely the pipework needs replacing. Almost certainly the airbags unless they have been replaced recently. The leaks will kill your compressor.

I've just been outside and done the test as Wammers suggested, happily I can comfirm the valveblock based on this seems fine, no lesks at all.

However, while standing and pondering my options i could hear air gently hissing from somewhere on the o/s/f, so i had a feel around the airbag, no escaping air felt and in fairness although dirty it didn't feel badly perished, then i thought i'd examine the supply pipe a bit more closely i gently moved it and the hissing stopped, is it possible these can get disturbed and lose their sealing ability? I am going to retry more tests and see what happens, given the pipes are plastic and the collets are metal is it likely some sort of contraction in the cold could cause this?

I also need to identify the height sensor on this corner as i'm sure its intermittent, but I'll do that right and start a fresh post.

GawaineT said:

I've just been outside and done the test as Wammers suggested, happily I can comfirm the valveblock based on this seems fine, no lesks at all.

However, while standing and pondering my options i could hesr air gently hissing from somewhere on the o/s/f, do i had a feel around the airbag, no escsping air felt and in fairness slthough dirty it didn't feel badly perished, then i thought i'd examine the supply pipe a bit more closely i gently moved it and the hissing stopped, is it possible these can get disturbed and lose their sealing ability? I am going to repest more tests and see what happens, given the pipes are plastic and the collets are metal is it likely some sort of contraction in the cold could cause this?

I also need to identify the height sensor on this corner as i'm sure its intermittent, but I'll do that right and start a fresh post

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The collet is only the retainer, the pipe is sealed the the housing by 2 "O" rings. You can try pushing the pipe further in.
Impossible to "feel" escaping air unless the bag is very bad, the leaks are usually where it folds under at the bottom, even the soapy water test doesn't always find the leak.
The fact remains that if the airbags are original they will be at or beyond the end of their working life.
If you had an "intermittent" height sensor you would have a soft fault and the car would go up to wading height, if this happens more than once in a short space of time it will go to hard fault and drop to the bump stops.
You can see the sensor readings using the diagnostic software.

Datatek said:

The collet is only the retainer, the pipe is sealed the the housing by 2 "O" rings. You can try pushing the pipe further in.
Impossible to "feel" escaping air unless the bag is very bad, the leaks are usually where it folds under at the bottom, even the soapy water test doesn't always find the leak.
The fact remains that if the airbags are original they will be at or beyond the end of their working life.
If you had an "intermittent" height sensor you would have a soft fault and the car would go up to wading height, if this happens more than once in a short space of time it will go to hard fault and drop to the bump stops.
You can see the sensor readings using the diagnostic software.

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I have pushed the pipe in a bit further, this is what stopped the air escaping.

I am of the opinion that I need to replace all four airbags at some point soon for peace of mind alone, any recommendations? Are Dunlops good enough, or should I consider Arnott Gen 2 units?

I have had the intermittent wading height thing on that corner, more than once too, hence my reasoning of the intermittent height sensor.
I did check the faults with software, it got that the first time, then not the second, when I got a couple of valve closed messages, which I'm presuming on the basis they were common each time, though on different sides might have caused the hard fault? Does Fault 7 contribute? (Vehicle Moved)

Oh and I think I'll keep a spare compressor just in case, I've caused this one to enter its senior years in short shrift.

Sorry if this seems like 20 questions, I'm just inquisitive and want to learn, so its another thing I can fix in future, should the need arise.

GawaineT said:

I have pushed the pipe in a bit further, this is what stopped the air escaping.

I am of the opinion that I need to replace all four airbags at some point soon for peace of mind alone, any recommendations? Are Dunlops good enough, or should I consider Arnott Gen 2 units?

I have had the intermittent wading height thing on that corner, more than once too, hence my reasoning of the intermittent height sensor.
I did check the faults with software, it got that the first time, then not the second, when I got a couple of valve closed messages, which I'm presuming on the basis they were common each time, though on different sides might have caused the hard fault? Does Fault 7 contribute? (Vehicle Moved)

Oh and I think I'll keep a spare compressor just in case, I've caused this one to enter its senior years in short shrift.

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I think the Arnott Gen II's are worth the extra and can be found for little more than the Dunlops, try P38 Spares on Ebay.
Vehicle moved can be ignored, it just means the height has changed after the vehicle stopped.
Valve stuck closed messages are usually caused by a height sensor not reporting a height change to the ECU when a change has been called for. Try removing and cleaning the connectors to the height sensors.
Cheap and easy to overhaul the compressor.

I think a little TLC all around is required, especially given the "variable" nature of all things P38 electric So a good dose of contact cleaner to everything involved is on the list, thanks for the tip. I will do the bits behind the kick panel too I think, just in case, although I don't think its got wet in there, this car has been babied all its life I think and can't swim

Do you know what type of height sensor I should look for, as I know the 97 onwards ones are apparently different, mine is a '96 frame number is TA330xxx if it helps.

GawaineT said:

I think a little TLC all around is required, especially given the "variable" nature of all things P38 electric So a good dose of contact cleaner to everything involved is on the list, thanks for the tip. I will do the bits behind the kick panel too I think, just in case, although I don't think its got wet in there, this car has been babied all its life I think and can't swim

Do you know what type of height sensor I should look for, as I know the 97 onwards ones are apparently different, mine is a '96 frame number is TA330xxx if it helps.

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97 and later they are swappable side to side earlier aren't. Earlier ones are a little dearer as well i think. Have a look at Island 4x4. About the cheapest around. But getting dearer i have noticed.

Hi

wammers said:

97 and later they are swappable side to side earlier aren't. Earlier ones are a little dearer as well i think. Have a look at Island 4x4. About the cheapest around. But getting dearer i have noticed.

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The height sensors on my 1994 Vogue were swappable. I know that because I swapped them as part of my EAS overhaul (approx 3 years ago).

I don't have that vehicle now, moved on to a 2000 P38 Vogue.

I disassembled a height sensor of about that vintage and found that they were very well made. I have no idea ATM of the quality of the current sensors.

It would be (from my experience) a simple resistance test on a multimeter to check if the sensor is reversible.

Peter Sanders said:

Hi



The height sensors on my 1994 Vogue were swappable. I know that because I swapped them as part of my EAS overhaul (approx 3 years ago).

I don't have that vehicle now, moved on to a 2000 P38 Vogue.

I disassembled a height sensor of about that vintage and found that they were very well made. I have no idea ATM of the quality of the current sensors.

It would be (from my experience) a simple resistance test on a multimeter to check if the sensor is reversible.

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That would be a classic not a P38. But they still had four different part numbers, so should not be the same item. Did you remove the arm and reposition it or just turn it round? On the P38 according to Land rover at least, sensors are not swappable pre 1997. Or maybe they say that because they supplied four different parts with four different numbers. Don't know to be honest.

wammers said:

That would be a classic not a P38. But they still had four different part numbers, so should not be the same item.

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Having four different part numbers was probably a "by design" factor so that intelligent people like you and I (et al) would not think to swap them over

Consider also that MANY different auto companies - retailers, wholesalers and manufacturers - supply or are supplied a wide range of parts for an even wider range of cars and spare part companies. The part will be EXACTLY the same but will be packaged differently and of course have a totally different part number, some will be exorbitantly priced!

Did you remove the arm and reposition it or just turn it round?

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I just turned it "over" to fit on "the other side" of the car and then flipped the arm, by rotating the sensor shaft, to suit that orientation. This was no "mechanical" adjustment other than turning the shaft.

After being in various service industries for most of my working life, I never even considered that they would be different on each "corner" of the car.

I just naturally expected from a manufacturing point of view that the makers would not "tool up" for four different parts when ONE would do the job.

On the P38 according to Land rover at least, sensors are not swappable pre 1997.

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While that could very well be correct, I don't see why the manufacturers would change their ways - they may have been made by a different company?

Or maybe they say that because they supplied four different parts with four different numbers. Don't know to be honest.

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This is a more likely scenario. After all if they can sell a NEW part at a VERY HIGH PRICE, as does our local dealer here in Western Australia, why would they "offer" to fix something for a minimal labour charge?

IIRC I did take off the height sensor I thought was faulty and checked it by flipping the arm 180° and checking with a multimeter.

Some time after doing my EAS overhaul I picked up a faulty sensor from one of the (GOOD) local service centres and pulled of the backplate.

I was impressed with its internal quality. If I find the photos I took I'll post them for forum members.