Early 90 engine

This site contains affiliate links for which LandyZone may be compensated if you make a purchase.

joe barnett

New Member
Posts
40
Location
derby
hi
does anyone know if the early 90 2.25 engine will fit directly into a Sreies 2a long wheelbase.
The reason I am unsure is, were the 90's permanent 4 wheel drive or was that the defender.
Cheers
 
Cheers,

Did the gerbox and everything come off the defender or was it a series? I'm a bit concerened the gearbox off the series will not fit.
 
MHM's gearbox and transfer box are series ones. At worst you'll need the clutch bellhousing from your old engine to fit to the replacement.

The 90 was permanent 4 - theres no difference between a 90 and a Defender, excepting a few details, other than the naming exerise they did when they brought out the discovery.

Cheers,
 
cheers for that. it should all fit then!!!

Not entirely sure; becouse of the comments about gearboxes and bellhousings?!?

2.5 motors use the same block casting as the 2.25 5-bearing engines; the last of the line Series motors.

The flange patern on the back, as far as I know is identical, give or take a location dowel, so the 2.25 motor SHOULD bolt directly to the Series bellhousing & box.

I seem to recall that there is a difference in the clutch plates; not sure if its the splines or the friction plate diameter or both; I think that the 90/110 had a 1/4 larger diameter friction plate, and that there was a different number of splines on the input shaft in the LT77 to in the Series box. solution, I believe is to fit series clutch plate behind 90/110 pressure plate; but as far as I know, fly wheel is OK, as is the series clutch release bearing and fork.

Basically, if you leave the series gearbox n there, all you have to do is change the clutch friction plate and the two should mate straight up.

The next curiousity, is the engine mounts;

attachement point on the block is in the same place on the 2.25 as the 2.5, becouse they are a common casting; but attachment point on the chassis rails I THINK is slightly further back on a 90/110, so the actual brackets are different; so you need to use the series brackets on the engine, not the 90 ones.

Some-one recently commented about using bottom half of a series mounting rubber and top half of a defender one..... which I cant quite fathom, and I THINK was to fit a 2.5 Diesil from a sherpa, any way, so probably irrelevant, but might need a little looking at before you drop the engine off the hoiste!

Moving on.....timing cover on the 2.5 is a different shape, and I seem to recall that ther may be a clerance problem around the battery tray; certanly on diesels, they need the battery relocating, but I think that's for the distributor pump, which isn't an issue on a petrol.

Lastly, there is a difference in the exhaust, and I think that you need to use a 90 down pipe on the 2.5 manifold, but can mate that to the series system from there.

So, if you are using the series gearbox; yes, should bolt in, pretty much like the original did, though there are a few detail differences.

If you are intending to use early 90/110's LT77 gearbox and LT230 transfer.......

You are into a whole gammut of difficulties and a 'hybrid' build. Engine and box mate as they were intended to in the 90/110, but after getting them resting on the chassis rails, you have to worry about the floor and transmission tunnel, and where the levers are going to come through it; you have the prop flanges in the wrong place for your props; you have permenant 4wd in the transfer box, which would demand CV joints in the front axle; which would mean either a stage 1 axle; TIConsole/Zeus (read effoff expensive!) CV 'Conversion' kit; or Range Rover or 90/110 'coiler' axles, which would effectively demand a hybrid coil spring conversion, or a heck of a lot of hassle to get the coil axles to sit on leafs, and either way, probably a conversion to defender steering!

THEN, you have to look at the gearing...... and the LT230 has about 25% more reduction in it than a series transfer, which entirely negates the LT77's 'fifth' gear, so you might want to go to 3.5:1 diffs...... which you would have if you went for coiler axles or a stage 1 front axle...... though is you only change the front...... would possibly leave a 4.7 in the back, which would be quite interesting, if you engaged diff-lock, as the front tried to pull the back along 25% quicker!

Oh........ and under DVLA regs, you need to re-register the car, when you breach 8-points in thier SVA scheme:-
Changing the engine to one that is not a direct like for like replacement (and 2.5 technically isn't), you get a point.
Change the gearbox, for one that is not a direct like for like replacement (LT77/LT230, definitely isn't), you get two points.
Change the axles, for ones that aren't direct like for like replacements (Stage 1 IS; Rangie/90 ones arent), you loose two more points.
Change the steering arrangement..... (a bit wooly, but 'technically' if you swap the series steering box for Range Rover/Defender one, it counts) you get another two points
Change the suspension systems, (put it on coils), and you definitely score another two points
But the kicker, is modify the chassis, (and adding coil mounts to it, often interpreted as a chassis mod) looses you five points.

How 'contientiouse or argumentative you want to be is up to you; many argue that coil mounts SHOUDN'T incur penalty as chassis mods, becouse they are demandeed by the suspension change, which has already been penalised, and the mounts aren't a part of the superstructure, merely a 'fitting' attached to it. Similar argument is provided over 2.5 engine, that it IS a 'direct' replacement...... in the same manner that parabolic leaf springs are different to OE leaves, but entirely 'interchangeable'.......
Ditto the steering, still worm and sector recirculating ball, and drag link steering....... same 'type' just a different arrangement (but more teniouse, and they may come back and point to necessary chassis mods to mount coler steering box, ad that to the coil mounts and say no way!)

grey area's abound. But, if you aren't changing the 'box, much of it's entirely avoided; and yes, 2.5 should drop in onto the series box without much hassle.

Use the Defender box, though and you are bound to get a lot of the stuff!
 
Not entirely sure; becouse of the comments about gearboxes and bellhousings?!?

2.5 motors use the same block casting as the 2.25 5-bearing engines; the last of the line Series motors.

The flange patern on the back, as far as I know is identical, give or take a location dowel, so the 2.25 motor SHOULD bolt directly to the Series bellhousing & box.

I seem to recall that there is a difference in the clutch plates; not sure if its the splines or the friction plate diameter or both; I think that the 90/110 had a 1/4 larger diameter friction plate, and that there was a different number of splines on the input shaft in the LT77 to in the Series box. solution, I believe is to fit series clutch plate behind 90/110 pressure plate; but as far as I know, fly wheel is OK, as is the series clutch release bearing and fork.

Basically, if you leave the series gearbox n there, all you have to do is change the clutch friction plate and the two should mate straight up.

The next curiousity, is the engine mounts;

attachement point on the block is in the same place on the 2.25 as the 2.5, becouse they are a common casting; but attachment point on the chassis rails I THINK is slightly further back on a 90/110, so the actual brackets are different; so you need to use the series brackets on the engine, not the 90 ones.

Some-one recently commented about using bottom half of a series mounting rubber and top half of a defender one..... which I cant quite fathom, and I THINK was to fit a 2.5 Diesil from a sherpa, any way, so probably irrelevant, but might need a little looking at before you drop the engine off the hoiste!

Moving on.....timing cover on the 2.5 is a different shape, and I seem to recall that ther may be a clerance problem around the battery tray; certanly on diesels, they need the battery relocating, but I think that's for the distributor pump, which isn't an issue on a petrol.

Lastly, there is a difference in the exhaust, and I think that you need to use a 90 down pipe on the 2.5 manifold, but can mate that to the series system from there.

So, if you are using the series gearbox; yes, should bolt in, pretty much like the original did, though there are a few detail differences.

If you are intending to use early 90/110's LT77 gearbox and LT230 transfer.......

You are into a whole gammut of difficulties and a 'hybrid' build. Engine and box mate as they were intended to in the 90/110, but after getting them resting on the chassis rails, you have to worry about the floor and transmission tunnel, and where the levers are going to come through it; you have the prop flanges in the wrong place for your props; you have permenant 4wd in the transfer box, which would demand CV joints in the front axle; which would mean either a stage 1 axle; TIConsole/Zeus (read effoff expensive!) CV 'Conversion' kit; or Range Rover or 90/110 'coiler' axles, which would effectively demand a hybrid coil spring conversion, or a heck of a lot of hassle to get the coil axles to sit on leafs, and either way, probably a conversion to defender steering!

THEN, you have to look at the gearing...... and the LT230 has about 25% more reduction in it than a series transfer, which entirely negates the LT77's 'fifth' gear, so you might want to go to 3.5:1 diffs...... which you would have if you went for coiler axles or a stage 1 front axle...... though is you only change the front...... would possibly leave a 4.7 in the back, which would be quite interesting, if you engaged diff-lock, as the front tried to pull the back along 25% quicker!

Oh........ and under DVLA regs, you need to re-register the car, when you breach 8-points in thier SVA scheme:-
Changing the engine to one that is not a direct like for like replacement (and 2.5 technically isn't), you get a point.
Change the gearbox, for one that is not a direct like for like replacement (LT77/LT230, definitely isn't), you get two points.
Change the axles, for ones that aren't direct like for like replacements (Stage 1 IS; Rangie/90 ones arent), you loose two more points.
Change the steering arrangement..... (a bit wooly, but 'technically' if you swap the series steering box for Range Rover/Defender one, it counts) you get another two points
Change the suspension systems, (put it on coils), and you definitely score another two points
But the kicker, is modify the chassis, (and adding coil mounts to it, often interpreted as a chassis mod) looses you five points.

How 'contientiouse or argumentative you want to be is up to you; many argue that coil mounts SHOUDN'T incur penalty as chassis mods, becouse they are demandeed by the suspension change, which has already been penalised, and the mounts aren't a part of the superstructure, merely a 'fitting' attached to it. Similar argument is provided over 2.5 engine, that it IS a 'direct' replacement...... in the same manner that parabolic leaf springs are different to OE leaves, but entirely 'interchangeable'.......
Ditto the steering, still worm and sector recirculating ball, and drag link steering....... same 'type' just a different arrangement (but more teniouse, and they may come back and point to necessary chassis mods to mount coler steering box, ad that to the coil mounts and say no way!)

grey area's abound. But, if you aren't changing the 'box, much of it's entirely avoided; and yes, 2.5 should drop in onto the series box without much hassle.

Use the Defender box, though and you are bound to get a lot of the stuff!


Blah, blah, blah...ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.. I challenge anyone to try and read thru that and stay awake past the furst sentence.........
 
I found that very interesting, does that qualify me as being sad or just boring!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
here!! he can take his pick
 

Attachments

  • medals.jpg
    medals.jpg
    30.4 KB · Views: 92
Having just done a 2.5 engine swap on me Series 3

Use series clutch plate2.5 plate will NOT fit a series gearbox. luckily i found that out before fitting it all.

Use Series engine mounts

Remove oil bath air filter and a section of battery tray, as stated timing cover will foul on the batt tray, oil bath will fit in the opposite side of engine bay after engine in. I made up a piece of ply that lifted the battery away from the timing cover, not ideal but it saves moving the battery for now.

Pretty straightforward, was a steep learning curve, but its in and it works, just seems as gutless as a 2 1/4 though............
 
Back
Top