Driving a 110 CSW on a "B" only licence - not allowed?

Do the following rules mean that anyone who passed their test after
1st Jan 1997 cannot legally drive a 110 CSW?

Not that it applies to me but I find it hard to believe that they
would allow you to drive a 110 hard-top, but not a CSW just because it
has >8 seats in it - although that is what this seems to suggest.

----

"Licences issued to drivers who passed their car driving test before 1st
January 1997 include categories B+E and C1+E which gives them the
entitlement to drive motor vehicles up to 7500kg MAM and to tow a
trailer providing that the combination of the towing vehicle and trailer
does not exceed 8250kg.

Drivers who passed their test on or after this date have category B
entitlement only, which restricts the entitlement to motor vehicles with
up to eight passenger seats and an MAM of up to 3500kg with trailers up
to 750kg MAM (4250kg combined), or larger trailers provided the
combination of the trailer and towing vehicle does not exceed 3500kg and
the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing
vehicle."

On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:18:25 +0000 (UTC), Matthew Maddock
<[email protected]> scribbled the following
nonsense:

>Do the following rules mean that anyone who passed their test after
>1st Jan 1997 cannot legally drive a 110 CSW?
>
>Not that it applies to me but I find it hard to believe that they
>would allow you to drive a 110 hard-top, but not a CSW just because it
>has >8 seats in it - although that is what this seems to suggest.
>
>----
>
>"Licences issued to drivers who passed their car driving test before 1st
>January 1997 include categories B+E and C1+E which gives them the
>entitlement to drive motor vehicles up to 7500kg MAM and to tow a
>trailer providing that the combination of the towing vehicle and trailer
>does not exceed 8250kg.
>
>Drivers who passed their test on or after this date have category B
>entitlement only, which restricts the entitlement to motor vehicles with
>up to eight passenger seats and an MAM of up to 3500kg with trailers up
>to 750kg MAM (4250kg combined), or larger trailers provided the
>combination of the trailer and towing vehicle does not exceed 3500kg and
>the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing
>vehicle."

Yep, tis true. Also explains why the crewcab 110s are selling so
well, and why sales of the Merc Vito minibus things are doing so well,
as that is an 8 seater.

Tell you, in some cases its a godsend, at least it means SWMBO can't
drive bURRt ;-)
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body sheel, being bobbed and modded.....

Matthew Maddock wrote:

> Do the following rules mean that anyone who passed their test after
> 1st Jan 1997 cannot legally drive a 110 CSW?
>
> Not that it applies to me but I find it hard to believe that they
> would allow you to drive a 110 hard-top, but not a CSW just because it
> has >8 seats in it - although that is what this seems to suggest.

http://www.dvla.gov.uk/drivers/drvmbus.htm

Read section 2 "Drivers who do not have minibus entitlement (Category
D1)"

If you're over 21, have held your license for 2 years and are not doing
it for hire and reward, and are not towing any size trailer you can
drive a 110 CSW even if you don't have category D1. Can't drive in
Europe though, I believe this particular piece of legislation was to
"harmonise" us with them.

Regards

Willliam MacLeod

[email protected] wrote:
> Matthew Maddock wrote:
>
>> Do the following rules mean that anyone who passed their test after
>> 1st Jan 1997 cannot legally drive a 110 CSW?
>>
>> Not that it applies to me but I find it hard to believe that they
>> would allow you to drive a 110 hard-top, but not a CSW just because
>> it has >8 seats in it - although that is what this seems to suggest.
>
> http://www.dvla.gov.uk/drivers/drvmbus.htm
>
> Read section 2 "Drivers who do not have minibus entitlement (Category
> D1)"
>
> If you're over 21, have held your license for 2 years and are not
> doing it for hire and reward, and are not towing any size trailer you
> can drive a 110 CSW even if you don't have category D1. Can't drive
> in Europe though, I believe this particular piece of legislation was
> to "harmonise" us with them.
>
> Regards
>
> Willliam MacLeod

I think you missed out

i) you drive on behalf of a non commercial body for social purposes but not for hire or reward, unless
operating under a permit

so no you can't
--
Andy

SWB Series 2a ( dressed as a 3) "Bruce"
It's big, it's mean it's really, really green

Andy.Smalley wrote:

> I think you missed out
>
> i) you drive on behalf of a non commercial body for social purposes but not for hire or > reward, unless operating under a permit
>
> so no you can't

What is a non-commercial body for social purposes? When this came out,
people tried to get a fixed definition but failed, as far as I know it
remains up to the courts to decide - about the only thing that could be
taken from that is if you're driving it commercially for non-social
purposes then you aren't going to be driving legally. Easy to remove a
seat+belts from the back, install a cubby box and inform the DVLA it's
now an 8 seater anyway if you want to be out of the grey area and don't
need all the seats. I believe that there are some different exemptions
with regards to >8 seats for vehicles over 30 years old as well though
110s don't quite come into that yet. IANAL, I looked at this ages ago
and talked to police and DVLA then, things may have changed since. But
I will disagree with blanket statements that those who have passed
their tests since 97 can't drive vehicles with more than 8 seats (such
as LR LWB station wagons).

Regards

William MacLeod

On or around Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:53:48 -0000, "Andy.Smalley"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>> http://www.dvla.gov.uk/drivers/drvmbus.htm
>>
>> Read section 2 "Drivers who do not have minibus entitlement (Category
>> D1)"
>>
>> If you're over 21, have held your license for 2 years and are not
>> doing it for hire and reward, and are not towing any size trailer you
>> can drive a 110 CSW even if you don't have category D1. Can't drive
>> in Europe though, I believe this particular piece of legislation was
>> to "harmonise" us with them.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Willliam MacLeod
>
>I think you missed out
>
>i) you drive on behalf of a non commercial body for social purposes but not for hire or reward, unless
>operating under a permit

hire and reward over 8 passengers is full D1 territory. I have D1 (Category
restriction 1) which allows up to 16 pax not-for-hire-or-reward.

also, you're not allowed to carry children under 16 on organised events in
sideways-facing seats.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Would to God that we might spend a single day really well!"
Thomas À Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xxiii.

I presume you are not allowed to carry them on the roof either. I recall our
school minibus back in the "old days" a transit with two benches on either
side.

I wonder if the only thing that has got more dangeros since then is other
drivers and that despite the proliferation of licence categories, standards
of driving have fallen because of the greater perceptions of safety and
invulnerability.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes




"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:53:48 -0000, "Andy.Smalley"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>
> hire and reward over 8 passengers is full D1 territory. I have D1
(Category
> restriction 1) which allows up to 16 pax not-for-hire-or-reward.
>
> also, you're not allowed to carry children under 16 on organised events in
> sideways-facing seats.
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
> "Would to God that we might spend a single day really well!"
> Thomas À Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xxiii.

On or around Wed, 8 Mar 2006 06:08:45 -0000, "Larry" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>I presume you are not allowed to carry them on the roof either. I recall our
>school minibus back in the "old days" a transit with two benches on either
>side.
>
>I wonder if the only thing that has got more dangeros since then is other
>drivers and that despite the proliferation of licence categories, standards
>of driving have fallen because of the greater perceptions of safety and
>invulnerability.

probably. The long bench seats with no belts can result in a heap of people
in the front in the event of an unexpectedly rapid stop.

mind, the same legislation precludes the use of sideways fold-ups in the
back of a disco - which have lap belts - which I reckon are no more
dangerous than a normal seat with a lap belt - and since the legislation
calls only for lap belts as a minimum standard...

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Something there is that doesn't love a wall."
Robert Frost (1874-1963)

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Andy.Smalley wrote:
>
>> I think you missed out
>>
>> i) you drive on behalf of a non commercial body for social purposes but
>> not for hire or > reward, unless operating under a permit
>>
>> so no you can't
>
> What is a non-commercial body for social purposes? When this came out,
> people tried to get a fixed definition but failed, as far as I know it
> remains up to the courts to decide - about the only thing that could be
> taken from that is if you're driving it commercially for non-social
> purposes then you aren't going to be driving legally. Easy to remove a
> seat+belts from the back, install a cubby box and inform the DVLA it's
> now an 8 seater anyway if you want to be out of the grey area and don't
> need all the seats. I believe that there are some different exemptions
> with regards to >8 seats for vehicles over 30 years old as well though
> 110s don't quite come into that yet. IANAL, I looked at this ages ago
> and talked to police and DVLA then, things may have changed since. But
> I will disagree with blanket statements that those who have passed
> their tests since 97 can't drive vehicles with more than 8 seats (such
> as LR LWB station wagons).
>
> Regards
>
> William MacLeod

That'll be fun in court - "I cite Willie MacLeods interpretation of the
Law - - -that's why I did it, m'Lud. "

Non-commercial body = Scouts / Youth Group ? Section 19 Permit anyone?

Well in my landie riding anywhere but in the front passenger seat is going
to have a modicum of danger cos there are no seat belts anywhere but for the
driver and one passenger.

I have had passengers on the long back seat, but in urban driving where the
risk is really not greater than you would find as a bus passenger.

It is really a matter of individual passenger responsibility and if they are
prepared to accept the situation, then that is ok, with the age of the
vehicle there is nothing illegal about it. I would say though that with kids
you do owe more responsibility as an adult for what happens to them whatever
the legal situation is .


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes


"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Wed, 8 Mar 2006 06:08:45 -0000, "Larry"
<[email protected]>
> enlightened us thusly:
> probably. The long bench seats with no belts can result in a heap of
people
> in the front in the event of an unexpectedly rapid stop.
>
> mind, the same legislation precludes the use of sideways fold-ups in the
> back of a disco - which have lap belts - which I reckon are no more
> dangerous than a normal seat with a lap belt - and since the legislation
> calls only for lap belts as a minimum standard...
>
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
> "Something there is that doesn't love a wall."
> Robert Frost (1874-1963)