Dream Defenders

lynall said:

Tbh after I read their last post, I thought hang on this is some sort of college/school project/work.

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fire the welder up… anything is possible

@george man So if no engine or gearbox seats can go anywhere(steering/pedals can move to give elbow room) enjoyment could be achieved….until you have to queue for the chargers,pay high prices for the coffee/food & find something for any kids to do while they are bored.

If I could try to drag this thread back to the original question, what modifications would you do or can you recommend to improve the experience of a defender?

I only mentioned the electric element as Im sure a lot of things would have come up about the drivetrain or suspension which we will be replacing.

I'm well aware that it's not for everyone and yes, at this point in time it is an expensive luxury but we have had lots of interest from both individuals and vehicle prep firms as well as commercial customers so right now I'm trying to make a nice version of a defender by addressing any problems that people may have.
So far we have heated seats and stopping the leaking door

george man said:

If I could try to drag this thread back to the original question, what modifications would you do or can you recommend to improve the experience of a defender?

I only mentioned the electric element as Im sure a lot of things would have come up about the drivetrain or suspension which we will be replacing.

I'm well aware that it's not for everyone and yes, at this point in time it is an expensive luxury but we have had lots of interest from both individuals and vehicle prep firms as well as commercial customers so right now I'm trying to make a nice version of a defender by addressing any problems that people may have.
So far we have heated seats and stopping the leaking door

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Won’t half the problems be solved when you get rid of the chassis & change it to a monocoque?
Unsure of other way you would get the motors To attach to a chassis.

I do love a (mental) challenge…

george man said:

If I could try to drag this thread back to the original question, what modifications would you do or can you recommend to improve the experience of a defender?

I only mentioned the electric element as Im sure a lot of things would have come up about the drivetrain or suspension which we will be replacing.

I'm well aware that it's not for everyone and yes, at this point in time it is an expensive luxury but we have had lots of interest from both individuals and vehicle prep firms as well as commercial customers so right now I'm trying to make a nice version of a defender by addressing any problems that people may have.
So far we have heated seats and stopping the leaking door

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If all you are bothered about is the making something that looks like a defender, is aimed at the high end luxury market rather than utility and are starting from scratch on a new floor pan chassis just scan a defender body and make every dimension about 10-15% larger (would give you something about the size of a double cab pickup for a 110) and fit a range rover interior and dash display. This would give the interior room and comfort as well removing all the outdated utilitarian Land Rover features luxury car drivers do not like.
But once again again as has been mentioned above we are the wrong people be asking here. We enjoy the fundamental problems and it is why we like them. But once again in the spirit of the question below are the best modifications I have made to mine excluding drive train to Give me my perfect and dream defender. List in order:
Series style split door with military sliding door tops (aluminium)
Wiper mounted wash jets
Under body protection (diffs, tank, steering guards)
External body protection (heavier bumper, bullbars, military rear bumper erred)
Swing away wheel carrier
Additional driving lights (bull at and roof)
Internal soundproofing (alubutyl sheets) on all surfaces
Raptor dash to accommodate radio and additions Switch gear for lights winch etc. if I didn’t have the extras I would t need this.

That is it for mods that have made a difference and I value. I have others like a snorke and winch etc. but they are not required for 99.9% of my use. And there is rarely a time where i have no option but use them.

I understand youv'e spoken to experts in engineering etc but have you spoken to insurance companys as they have the last port of call if it is allowed on the road...it can pass all build tests but if nobody will insure it your stuffed...

Shippers said:

I understand youv'e spoken to experts in engineering etc but have you spoken to insurance companys as they have the last port of call if it is allowed on the road...it can pass all build tests but if nobody will insure it your stuffed...

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On a similar note if you are looking to use a defender body or even a similar copy on a new platform you might need to speak to Land Rover. I know others have tried to purchase the body patterns and failed. I can’t see Land Rover taking kindly to making a copy and I doubt you could convince them it is a rebuild/restoration of existing with what you are planning. Especially if you need a new reg/ or are planning limited production run type approval.

dag019 said:

On a similar note if you are looking to use a defender body or even a similar copy on a new platform you might need to speak to Land Rover. I know others have tried to purchase the body patterns and failed. I can’t see Land Rover taking kindly to making a copy and I doubt you could convince them it is a rebuild/restoration of existing with what you are planning. Especially if you need a new reg/ or are planning limited production run type approval.

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The legal advise we have received is that as we are offering a service to convert customers cars, rather than selling a behicle as a new product, its not in breach of any design copyright or anything like that. It's seen as the same as doing an engine swap or any ither modification other than stock in terms of needing land rovers permission.
If we were building our own bodies from a mold and passing them off as genuine there may be more problems but in the current model it is fine.
As for insurance yes we are discussing this with companies and, as with many things in life, if people are willing to pay for it they will insure it.
However, the reality of what we are hearing is if a vehicle has passed an iva or had type approval there are actually a lot of insurers out there who are happy to insure it and many actually don't cost a lot because it has passed the government mandated safety checks... its probably safer than some dodgy mods done by a teenager without needing to pass any safety checks

The best thing about a defender is a tdi lump in my opinion. Since they’ve been so trendy so many aren’t used how a lot of this forum use them though!
Niggles - a lot which are easily sorted though:

Cold kidney
Wet knee
Wet floor
Rust
**** wipers
**** window spray
**** lights
Loud interior
Directly mounted to chassis without body mounts
Rust
No elbow room
No door bars for accident protection
No leg room
Bi-metallic corrosion
Rust
Thieves favourite
**** handbrake

They should’ve made a more comfortable car with a 200 or 300 in that was just as easy to maintain but could be driven without your fillings being shaken out…..

george man said:

The legal advise we have received is that as we are offering a service to convert customers cars, rather than selling a behicle as a new product, its not in breach of any design copyright or anything like that. It's seen as the same as doing an engine swap or any ither modification other than stock in terms of needing land rovers permission.
If we were building our own bodies from a mold and passing them off as genuine there may be more problems but in the current model it is fine.
As for insurance yes we are discussing this with companies and, as with many things in life, if people are willing to pay for it they will insure it.
However, the reality of what we are hearing is if a vehicle has passed an iva or had type approval there are actually a lot of insurers out there who are happy to insure it and many actually don't cost a lot because it has passed the government mandated safety checks... its probably safer than some dodgy mods done by a teenager without needing to pass any safety checks

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george man said:

The legal advise we have received is that as we are offering a service to convert customers cars, rather than selling a behicle as a new product, its not in breach of any design copyright or anything like that. It's seen as the same as doing an engine swap or any ither modification other than stock in terms of needing land rovers permission.
If we were building our own bodies from a mold and passing them off as genuine there may be more problems but in the current model it is fine.
As for insurance yes we are discussing this with companies and, as with many things in life, if people are willing to pay for it they will insure it.
However, the reality of what we are hearing is if a vehicle has passed an iva or had type approval there are actually a lot of insurers out there who are happy to insure it and many actually don't cost a lot because it has passed the government mandated safety checks... its probably safer than some dodgy mods done by a teenager without needing to pass any safety checks

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You seem to be modifying your replys...customers vehicles/iva etc..how can you take a customers car rebuild it and then register it as new theres a company in Wales that build copys of MK1/2 Escorts they cant call them Ford or anything related so can you give the owner of his Land Rover Defender a V5 with a reg of the year built stating Land Rover Defender on it?...

Shippers said:

You seem to be modifying your replys...customers vehicles/iva etc..how can you take a customers car rebuild it and then register it as new theres a company in Wales that build copys of MK1/2 Escorts they cant call them Ford or anything related so can you give the owner of his Land Rover Defender a V5 with a reg of the year built stating Land Rover Defender on it?...

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No, if its registered as a new vehicle it won't be a land rover anymore, my point was we aren't making copies of an existing body, we would be using genuine bodies so won't have the legal issues

george man said:

Hi All,

I am starting a new business that will involve modifying defenders and uprating all of the running gear... can't say too much about that at the moment but will be electric... but along the way I would like to also improve some little niggles with the cars.

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Curious, how are you making them road legal? Are you going down the IVA route and putting them all on Q plates. Or will it be small scale production and completely re-registering them as your own make, again through IVA?

Hope you aren't trying to build and sell illegal cars..... it is going to catch up with people breaking the law for profit at some point.

I'm yet to see an EV conversion on a Land Rover that doesn't breach this guidance and require an IVA and a new identity.

resto_d1 said:

They should’ve made a more comfortable car with a 200 or 300 in that was just as easy to maintain but could be driven without your fillings being shaken out…..

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They did....and called it Discovery

300bhp/ton said:

Curious, how are you making them road legal? Are you going down the IVA route and putting them all on Q plates. Or will it be small scale production and completely re-registering them as your own make, again through IVA?

Hope you aren't trying to build and sell illegal cars..... it is going to catch up with people breaking the law for profit at some point.

I'm yet to see an EV conversion on a Land Rover that doesn't breach this guidance and require an IVA and a new identity.

Vehicle registration

How to register your vehicle and the cost - new registrations, kit cars, rebuilds, radically altered vehicles, old and classic vehicles, vehicle identification numbers, Q plates

www.gov.uk

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Yes I've been surprised to see a lot of the conversions out there that don't seem to need an IVA.
As you suggested they will be registered as new vehicles. The aim is to get type approval and I'm currently discussing this with the DVLA because although the platform will be consistent, the bodies will be different because of how modifiable defenders are it's almost impossible to find two with the same body in terms of lights, accessories etc.

Although again I am no expert I doubt a fully factory original defender fomr the '80s would pass a current IVA as it would not be in compliance with a lot of regulations. I know a chap who struggled with a kit car because of the radius' required on everything to remove "sharp edges"

resto_d1 said:

Beneagles said:

They did....and called it Discovery

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They should’ve made a more comfortable car with a 200 or 300 in that was just as easy to maintain but could be driven without your fillings being shaken out…..

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Drat, my reply went missing.

Beneagles said:

They did....and called it Discovery

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oh I just bought a 300tdi one of those

dag019 said:

Although again I am no expert I doubt a fully factory original defender fomr the '80s would pass a current IVA as it would not be in compliance with a lot of regulations. I know a chap who struggled with a kit car because of the radius' required on everything to remove "sharp edges"

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Yeah the radius issue is a problem for a lot of kit cars, especially open wheel types like the caterham.
I need to get back up to speed with the assessment as I've been focusing on other elements recently but from memory you can't have any 90 degree angles exposed on the front or sides, so things like exposed bolts have to be covered with a plastic cap.
With an IVA or small batch type approval there is no measure of crash safety or pedestrian impact safety so I think as long as you have plastic caps on the end of the bumper you are fine.

I recon Land Rover missed the boat in not having a proper commercial version of the Disco in the 90's [ not the thing with blanked out windows] A two seat cab SWB and a crew cab LWB with separate load area [ flat bed, van back, high roof ect.[ look at all similar trucks on the road today] This though would have likely seen the finish of Defender production with the last 300tdi model.
My dream Landy would be my 1990 Ninety [ with 200tdi ] all new again just by Magic.

@george man do you own a Defender or have ever owned or driven one?...