Dodgy series 2a

Bulkheads get swapped out, doors get swapped out, we've probably nearly all done it. My 2a has a 110 bulkhead on it and S3 doors. However it's the chassis that (along with a couple of other key components) carries the identity of the vehicle, the bodywork is legally irrelevant.

If you can shift the photo to the left a bit to show how the brake pipes mount onto the chassis, the chassis can be identified whether it's 2a or 3. There's other differences between the chassis too.

Thanks for all the suggestions. My conclusion is that it is a civilian s3 and the plan is to spend no money on it then scrap it on the first failed mot.

On an entirely unrelated note, does anyone know what happens with the log book when you buy a new galvanised chassis. Do you just tell the dvla to update it?

The galv chassis will probably come un-numbered, so there's nothing to update DVLA with.

On a separate note, if you were to buy a correct replacement 2a chassis to suit the ID you own on your logbook, and rebuild onto it the existing components from your Series 3 with the exception of new springs/shocks and a new steering system [or any of the other assemblies which would give you at least 3 points], it would be indistinguishable from the original 2a in the eyes of the law. You'd have 9 of the original points on the basis of 'original or direct replacement part'. Most of the S3 parts would fit OK, with the exception that the gearbox would clout one of the crossmember chassis braces and you might need to re-drill your forward rear tub mounts.

The DVLA rules are here: Registering a radically altered vehicle : Directgov - Motoring

Don't scrap it :-(

SpringDon said:

Thanks for all the suggestions. My conclusion is that it is a civilian s3 and the plan is to spend no money on it then scrap it on the first failed mot.

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The V5 would strongly suggest you are wrong with that assumption - the fact that it was first registered in 1973 but built in 1962 (or whatever the wording is) would very very strongly suggest it was in military use for the first 9 years.

My 2a has a series 3 bulk head, wings, bonnet, cab, doors, etc. It still has all the original running gear though, engine, the lot. So, yes, it does look a bit S3 ish, but, the main components are the original 1964 Series 2a parts.

I don't think the vehicle referred to by the v5 is the one I own. Everthing that I can identify is s3 (it's got a 2.5 ex-mil engine). The only thing I'm not sure about is the chassis because I can't find a list of the difference and don't know anyone with a swb s2a.

Scrapping seems my only option because there's no way I'll pass it on; can't describe the sick feeling I had as realization dawned and i don't want anyone to have that. And I don't want it impounded as I lose everything.

Break it then?

Where are you located? Someone maybe able to help you identify it...

Sorry, when I say scrap I mean break but scrap the v5.

I'm in west somerset any old landrover specialists round here.

SpringDon said:

I bought a an ex-military 2a in february, i was told that it had series 3 wings put on it when demobbed in 1973 and that someone put in s series 3 dash later. It had a V5 with a manufactured date of 1962 and a historic vehicle certificate.
I've not done much on it since then because of a shoulder operation. However, recent tinkering have led me to believe it is all series 3. Looking for the chassis number (at least where i think it should be) has been unsuccessful. I have attached a photo of what i think is a metal plate welded just above the right front spring mounting. I would grateful if someone could confirm that the chassis number is missing.

Finally, does any one know what will happen when i report this, i.e. will it be impounded or given a Q plate. I'd like the previous owner to get a police visit but assume i will be the lucky recipient of any heat.

Thanks

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Why are you getting so worried about it there are loads of vehicles out there made up off spare parts and if it has passed several MOT's and been insured what's the problem.
To be honest all vehicles over 25 years old are of historic value in some way or another even though the law states it has to be pre 1973, if you whant one to make concourse then sell this one and search for a nice restoration project and give it a thorough check before buying

again the offer is there ... shift your photo to the left to show how the front brake pipes mount to the chassis and it can be easily identified whether the chassis itself is 2a or 3. they're obviously different. other differences include the spacing of the front of rear tub mounts, the handbrake bracketry, and the style of bracings around the gearbox bellhousing crossmember, all very hard to describe in words but painfully apparent in a photo.

This might help. photos are a bit crap as it's dark outside and the subject 2a on the drive is very rusty!

1st off - bellhousing crossmember bracing. On a 2a it's straight, on a 3 the bracing is kinked to clear the clutch slave.



This is the bracing on a genuine 2a:


Easiest way to ID it though is to peep under the front wheel and look at the chassis bracing around the front brake pipe. The drawing I've done of a 3 chassis is from memory. These 2 pics are based on the offside/drivers side under the front wheelarch:

and this one is a genuine 2a:


There's other changes too but this should be enough to positively ID a 1964 2a chassis from a Series 3 chassis.

(and note: it all gets a bit mixed up around 1969/70 with the late 2a and the introduction of the series 3)

Good luck.

If a front chassis leg were to be removed and replaced, the new one slides over the old one, if this is the case no chassis number would be present, and I should thing producing the vehicle for M.o.T with the plate inside would be sufficient.

Andy.

Why Mr. Oildripper, you silver tongued devil, how could i resist.

Attached are some photos of the x-member and brake pipe which, if i have understood Mr.Smiths88 most excellent post correctly, indicate that it is indeed a 2a chassis?

There is also a bonus photo of the left side bulkhead which is a S3 (because of the windscreen hinge and door stay attachments) but does the box where the heater pipes come out indicate its military or have i just made that up?

In answer to the answer 'what i am (was i?) woried about', it was the lack of a number might indicate it was stolen and i read in lro magazine about a journalist who was stopped, tank dipped and then had the chassis number very carefully examined with the threat that anything dodgy would result in the vehicle being impounded. I wouldn't want that.

Thanks and waiting with with renewed hope!

Attached are some photos of the x-member and brake pipe which, if i have understood Mr.Smiths88 most excellent post correctly, indicate that it is indeed a 2a chassis?

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Errr...no. The clutch slave cylinder on an S3 is on the LEFT side of the bellhousing (when sat in the vehicle facing forwards). Your photo is of the right hand side- the side with the propshafts....

Take a picture of the other side of the crossmember for us?

Doh!

This one any good?

that's as 2a as they come. (All 4 bellhousing member braces are the same, either all kinked on a 3 or straight on a 2a).

"if it were me" ... and your front offside dumbiron is a bit dodgy, perhaps I'd consider replacing the dumbiron as someone earlier suggested, stamp your chassis number back into the new one and live happily ever after.

I don't exactly know where the 2a number is stamped, but on a 3 it's right at the bottom of the dumbiron where it's plated to be thicker around the spring hanger eye, on the outside face of the chassis. You might even find your number there.

Nice one.

I'm a relived man. Thank you very much and love and kisses to you all.

I believe you've missed out a couple of bits in regards to the chassis number and chassis replacement.

A chassis number was not legally required until 1981, therefore a vehicle manufactured before then will not need to have one, I have no Vin plate or chassis number on my S2a and it only passed it's MOT a few months back, all you need to do is take the log book to the MOT testing centre so that the tester doesn't fail the motor when he can't find the chassis number which would also result in getting an invite from Vosa/ DVLA to take your motor for an inspection (where they will literally use a fine toothed comb and check every last nut and bolt.

Most Chassis numbers on series motors get plates welded over them, rust away or get lost due to replacement dumb irons. If you are worried about the chassis number/ VIN plate get an old scrap of aluminium and make one up and rivet it on. Some series also had their VIN plates and military contract / ID plates on the drivers side of the seat box.


Also you are legally required to inform DVLA if you install a new or replacement chassis to the vehicle and it would require a test to prove that it's the original vehicle, Some re-chassied land rovers end up being slapped on a Q plate. There are two people that got caught out by this when they took their motors for MOT's and they got invite from VOSA/ DVLA to take there motors for some test (can't remember the name now) within 5 miles from me, one person is about 150 yards down the road from me.

SpringDon said:

I'm a relived man. Thank you very much and love and kisses to you all.

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Nice to see and good luck with your restoration