Dodgy 110 on ebay

goonarmy said:

why worry the filth dont care, dvla don tcare.We should all get on board and ring some motors.

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Sadly this is true, I had a reply from the DVLA this morning.

Dear Mr Macfarlane

Thank you for your email received on 21/3/12. Your email reference number is 879856.

Whilst I appreciate your concerns and thank you for bringing matters such as these to our attention, I am afraid that the DVLA cannot govern what is advertised for sale on the Internet or via other media sources.

DVLA does write to all reported Internet sites informing them of the unlawful sale of tax discs or VIN plates and V5C Registration Certificates. However, we can only make a note of the transaction on the vehicle record when a customer informs us of the misconduct and states the vehicle registration number concerned. I can assure you that DVLA will continue to do everything it can to prevent the illegal trading of government documents on the Internet, however, DVLA continues to be restricted to the amount of action it can take.

In cases where the vehicle registration number is provided, DVLA can place a marker to automatically block any transaction from taking place. This would mean that cases could be thoroughly investigated to prevent any illegal activities from taking place.

I hope this clarifies your enquiry.

Do not reply to this email. If you wish to contact us again about this response then please use our Reply Form or copy and paste the following URL in to your browser:

https://emaildvla.direct.gov.uk/emaildvla/cegemail/directgov/en/reply_form_vehicles.html

When filling in the form the email reference number 879856 will be required.

Regards

R Powell
Customer Enquiries Group
DVLA

so theyre saying you have to buy it before they even consider doing anything?

crazymac said:

Sadly this is true, I had a reply from the DVLA this morning.

Dear Mr Macfarlane

... I am afraid that the DVLA cannot govern what is advertised for sale on the Internet or via other media sources....


Regards

R Powell
Customer Enquiries Group
DVLA

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Of course they can't govern what's advertised, but what they CAN do - which is what they were being ASKED to do, is their fekking jobs and stop bull****ting fraudsters taking the proverbial. Seems they can't even do that when the info/evidence is spoon fed to them. It's enough to make me want to discuss politics with Fur Trapper.

Maybe a letter addressed to the Stolen Vehicle Squad with a copy to the Chief Constable of whatever Force it is situated in. Chances are, the person who spoke to you in the police station was a civilian staff member who doesnt know any better. Probably got the call, asked you to hold, shouted over their shoulder to a deskbound sergeant, and was told to fob you off. Any decent SVS Officer will jump on this as it will open a can of worms and lead to lots of stuff in the guys yard to be accounted for. Not saying it is stolen but like I have pointed out to the seller, it should not be on that plate.

crashbox said:

Maybe a letter addressed to the Stolen Vehicle Squad with a copy to the Chief Constable of whatever Force it is situated in. Chances are, the person who spoke to you in the police station was a civilian staff member who doesnt know any better. Probably got the call, asked you to hold, shouted over their shoulder to a deskbound sergeant, and was told to fob you off. Any decent SVS Officer will jump on this as it will open a can of worms and lead to lots of stuff in the guys yard to be accounted for. Not saying it is stolen but like I have pointed out to the seller, it should not be on that plate.

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Your asking a cash strapped dvla to send an "overworked" examinater based on an eBay add that no-one can really substatiate, nor can he comprehend which parts are from the source vehicle or from a donor!!

You are then asking the police to go and trap someone up for what exactly? Someone has built a car from bits of other cars keeping the registration of one of them. They don't have the knowledge of the enthusiast nor the knowledge of the dvla staff who don't want to investigate anyway and what says that any of the parts are stolen?.

There may well be some parts coming from stolen vehicles but judging by the amount of second hand LR stuff I dare say we have all bought something in good faith!

Is it in the public Interest to go over this vehicle just because
Someone has interrogated eBay for age related discrepancies?

There is a lot of talk about point systems but who here has had experience of them other than reading about them?

Why would he invite someone to examine his vehicle if no-one from dvla had asked to attend?

If chassis numbers and engine numbers are correct on the log book and relate to parts fitted and era produced then flags should be flying at dvla if there is any case to answer.


If the engine and chassis show numbers of the original vehicle then it's cause for
Concern, but that don't make it nicked however but there may be fraud being committed against dvla, they have said they ain't bothered!

DavidJR said:

If the engine and chassis show numbers of the original vehicle then it's cause for
Concern, but that don't make it nicked however but there may be fraud being committed against dvla, they have said they ain't bothered!

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Then they ought to be concerned, because you, I and anyone else who pays their road tax are subsidising these ****s.

BasilSeal said:

Then they ought to be concerned, because you, I and anyone else who pays their road tax are subsidising these ****s.

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Who exactly are you subsidising? What are you subsidising that person in doing?

I have a 97 300tdi that has body parts from a 2007 onwards because they are better!

I have a rear x member replaced from 4x4 reborn that looks like a post 1998.

I intend to change the interior for later spec!

If LR bring out a new defender which shares enough details to enable me to use that chassis as an improvement I may put that on when my chassis turns to dust.

When my axles give up the ghost shall I pay a silly amount for recon units or buy later, stronger ones from a newer vehicle, because I know they fit.

When my engine gives up the ghost I will consider a "brand new" 2.8 tgv unit.

At which point should I consider the Dvla points system? Would I have more incentive to report my deviation if I knew I was to pay 200 pound a year extra in road tax?

I once owned a Mini that had been fitted with a recon engine and gearbox. I added two new subframes whilst I had it.

that means i should have applied for a Q reg because the engine / gearbox / and both axles were not original.

I know peeps that have put disco engine gearbox and axles into their landrover

the point is....if the bits arn't stolen and the vehicle isn't stolen and ID changed then where do you draw the line

landowner said:

I once owned a Mini that had been fitted with a recon engine and gearbox. I added two new subframes whilst I had it.

that means i should have applied for a Q reg because the engine / gearbox / and both axles were not original.

I know peeps that have put disco engine gearbox and axles into their landrover

the point is....if the bits arn't stolen and the vehicle isn't stolen and ID changed then where do you draw the line

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Check the points and how it works guys, replacing an item like for like is fine, and upgrading to something like a Tdi is also fine as you still retain the majority of the original vehicle.

Even getting a new chassis is fine, as long as it is NEW, if its not, then you should use the reg and identity that comes with the second hand chassis.

Where you draw the line, is when you break the law! Most of us buy second hand parts at some point, but you do try and find out where the parts come from, you make some effort, however small, to try and ensure that you are not buying stolen parts, so for the main part you should be OK and have a clear concience.

However when you take a vehicle like this one, openly admitted to being on a later chassis to me by the owner, you should be using the ID from the later vehicle and therefore not retain the "historic" status, and thats whet it is, yes, sure, most of us call it "tax exempt status" but it is actually called HISTORIC status, therefore you should have at least something historic on the vehicle, to do otherwise is fraud. It is tax evasion!!

You are fraudulently claiming historic status on a vehicle that has nothing historic about it, this is admitted by the seller!! The DVLA must get its money somewhere, its the same as not paying insurance, someone has the pay!! And so it is mugs like us law abiding citizens that get to pay!!

crazymac said:

Check the points and how it works guys, replacing an item like for like is fine, and upgrading to something like a Tdi is also fine as you still retain the majority of the original vehicle.

Even getting a new chassis is fine, as long as it is NEW, if its not, then you should use the reg and identity that comes with the second hand chassis.

Where you draw the line, is when you break the law! Most of us buy second hand parts at some point, but you do try and find out where the parts come from, you make some effort, however small, to try and ensure that you are not buying stolen parts, so for the main part you should be OK and have a clear concience.

However when you take a vehicle like this one, openly admitted to being on a later chassis to me by the owner, you should be using the ID from the later vehicle and therefore not retain the "historic" status, and thats whet it is, yes, sure, most of us call it "tax exempt status" but it is actually called HISTORIC status, therefore you should have at least something historic on the vehicle, to do otherwise is fraud. It is tax evasion!!

You are fraudulently claiming historic status on a vehicle that has nothing historic about it, this is admitted by the seller!! The DVLA must get its money somewhere, its the same as not paying insurance, someone has the pay!! And so it is mugs like us law abiding citizens that get to pay!!

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if you check the points on the Mini with 'new' refurbished from another car subframes and recon engine and box (from another car) you will find it should loose its identity. Is that fair?

landowner said:

if you check the points on the Mini with 'new' refurbished from another car subframes and recon engine and box (from another car) you will find it should loose its identity. Is that fair?

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OK, strictly speaking that may well be the case, and I don't think its right. If you are replacing like for like, albeit refurbished from another vehicle of similar age then I see no issue.

The crucial bit is the like for like!! If you have an 88 inch tax exempt chassis that is rotted through, then replacing it with a refurbished one of the same spec I see as no issue. even replacing it with a brand new galvanised one is fine in my mind, as long as it retains leaf springs etc! If however you have a log book from a tax exempt vehicle (as I happen to have) and you get a coil sprung chassis from a much newer vehicle, then built it up with modern brakes, axles, springs, power steering and as a result the vehicle looks, drives, feels like a modern vehicle and the only thing that makes it look historic is the reg plate then NO!! Its fraud, use the identity of the doner vehicle and dont try and claim it as an historic vehicle.

Similar age vehicle etc then no issue in my mind.

You can use new parts. Even a replacement chassis is ok as long the spec is correct for the original.

DVLA - don't give a f**k
Police - don't give a f**k
eBay - don't give a f**k - they still get paid

Law abiding citizen who pays for things, has insurance, etc. get's screwed over big time and the services they are paying for do f**k all to help them out, they just help the people doing things illegally.

Welcome to the UK.

Don't consider taking the law into your own hands though else you'll end up in a prision in no time serving 20 years --> Life with a new best buddy called Dave... who is a bit lonely.

What ****es me off is if you try to do something properly...

I looked into building a hybrid using a Disco chassis and series bodywork, in the end gave up that idea as it'd be far too much ****ing about trying to keep the bureaucrats happy.... Wanted to keep Disco identity but would end up with a Q plate.

If I did it the dodgy way and built it up and stuck tax exempt series plates on it, by the sounds of it none of the authorities would bat an eyelid anyway...

If it was easier and/or possible to do things the "proper" way then MAYBE some of this sort of stuff might not happen!

Just been pointed out on Landywatch, that this has been listed again. This time though it's a 1972 200 tdi


eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

Have reported it to DVLA again in some misguided hope that they'll take notice

It is a blantant ring isnt it.

try this for even more blatant:

Land rover defender chassis & id | eBay

Check out the last pic for what you are actually buying, now that is taking the ****. that, and the one i've linked to below, have been reported to ebay, any bets on whether they get pulled?

LAND ROVER LIGHT UTILILY V5 LOG BOOK CHASSIS ID | eBay

(the second one might just go as it's just for the log book only, he's not even pretending to send you the chassis.)

Dodgy as fook