Discovery TD5 Auto questions

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Fri, 3 Nov 2006 21:01:15 -0000, "Richard Brookman"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >Yes, the TC will lock up at about 53mph or so, and you can feel the
slight
> >lurch as it does so. But there are also what I call (in my head)
half-gears
> >too. Scenario: you are driving up a hill which becomes progressively
> >steeper as you climb, towing a decent weight behind. You start in
lock-up
> >4th. As the road speed drops below 55-ish, there is a slight rise in
revs
> >as the lock-up drops out. Speed drops further and it changes to 3rd. If
> >you now give the box a bit of help and manually lock it into 3rd,
>
> The box is quite capable of going straight from 4LU to 3rd, if you're
> pushing it a bit harder. I think what you're seeing is converter slip in
> 4th, then you pull the lever in to 3 and it goes down to 3rd.
>
> >the revs
> >rise again. Speed drops again and it changes down - but again, if you
move
> >the lever to "2" the revs will rise again. It's as if there are splitter
> >gears between the proper ratios, like a 3½ gear and a 2½ gear, but which
are
> >chosen by the car, not the driver, if that makes sense.
>
> The torque converter is designed to slip within a certain range, which
> smoothes the gaps between the gears. Autos are typically higher ratios,
but
> the torque converter gives a non-solid variable drive. Some industrial
> things ONLY have a TC, no actual gears at all, but they're usually
operating
> in a more limited range of speeds.
>
>
>
> Especially if driving with a fairly light boot, you'll get this effect.
> There are only 4 actual gears, although converter-lockup feels like a 5th.

And the DII has lock-up in both 3rd and 4th don't forget, giving the
illusion of more gears.
Badger.

Austin Shackles wrote:

|| On or around Fri, 3 Nov 2006 20:27:15 -0000, "Richard Brookman"
|| <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
||
||| Yup, it's a "feature". Mine does the same, although 55 sounds a
||| bit high. It certainly seems to hang onto 3rd more than you would
||| do if you had a manual change. It's worse with towing. I recently
||| towed a caravan the length of Wales and back, all on A and B roads,
||| and it spent a lot of time in 3rd and even 2nd. I've learned to
||| live with it. I've been told that a chip upgrade will help it hold
||| a higher gear on hills etc, and I'm looking into this myself.
||
|| not sure on those how the 'box is run. if it's still traditional
|| mechanical you can tweak the kickdown cable settings. if it's
|| electronic, then you can presumably alter the programming somehow,
|| but buggered if I know how.

It's all electronic, with a throttle pot and no kickdown cable in sight.

--
Rich
==============================

Take out the obvious to email me.

Badger wrote:

|| And the DII has lock-up in both 3rd and 4th don't forget, giving the
|| illusion of more gears.
|| Badger.

Aha! Mystery solved. Thanks.

--
Rich
==============================

Take out the obvious to email me.

On or around Sat, 4 Nov 2006 12:15:30 -0000, "Richard Brookman"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>|| On or around Fri, 3 Nov 2006 20:27:15 -0000, "Richard Brookman"
>|| <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>||
>||| Yup, it's a "feature". Mine does the same, although 55 sounds a
>||| bit high. It certainly seems to hang onto 3rd more than you would
>||| do if you had a manual change. It's worse with towing. I recently
>||| towed a caravan the length of Wales and back, all on A and B roads,
>||| and it spent a lot of time in 3rd and even 2nd. I've learned to
>||| live with it. I've been told that a chip upgrade will help it hold
>||| a higher gear on hills etc, and I'm looking into this myself.
>||
>|| not sure on those how the 'box is run. if it's still traditional
>|| mechanical you can tweak the kickdown cable settings. if it's
>|| electronic, then you can presumably alter the programming somehow,
>|| but buggered if I know how.
>
>It's all electronic, with a throttle pot and no kickdown cable in sight.

ah. in that case, it's a reprogram to alter the behaviour, I expect. Badger
will know...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
>> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

On or around Sat, 4 Nov 2006 09:57:17 -0000, "Badger"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>And the DII has lock-up in both 3rd and 4th don't forget, giving the
>illusion of more gears.

yer learn summat new every day.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
>> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Sat, 4 Nov 2006 09:57:17 -0000, "Badger"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
> >
> >And the DII has lock-up in both 3rd and 4th don't forget, giving the
> >illusion of more gears.
>
> yer learn summat new every day.

Oh, and FWIW, there's no reprogramming available for the EAT (Electronic
Automatic Transmission), mainly (I suspect) because it's an adaptive system.
My DII (V8, of course!) will hunt between 3rd, 3rd locked, 4th, 4th locked
when on hills with our 22' caravan behind it so I tend - if it's a long
hill - to manually select it back to 3rd and let it lock and unlock as it
see's fit until I'm "over the hill" (no sarcasm, please!) then re-select
4th. just seems less strenuous that way to me.
It's a good system all in all, with the adaptive shift being more tailored
to the vehicle than the earlier purely hydromechanical versions of the 'box,
but I have heard the general "complaint" from other TD5 owners that they'd
like it to hold 4th locked for a little longer when towing / using wider
throttle positions.
Badger.

On or around Sat, 4 Nov 2006 16:47:10 -0000, "Badger"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>It's a good system all in all, with the adaptive shift being more tailored
>to the vehicle than the earlier purely hydromechanical versions of the 'box,
>but I have heard the general "complaint" from other TD5 owners that they'd
>like it to hold 4th locked for a little longer when towing / using wider
>throttle positions.
>Badger.
>

I thought that initially with the 4HP22 which I put in the 110 - it seemed
that it'd go from 4th-locked down to 3rd quite easily at about 60, however,
more study led to the conclusion that flat out in 2nd is about 60, flat out
in 3rd is about 85 ISTR, although I never got around to trying it. So if
you're pulling weight and doing about 60 then it's appropriate for it to be
in 3rd, not what amounts to 5th.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria"
- Dante Alighieri (1265 - 1321) from Divina Commedia 'Inferno'

Badger wrote:
> "Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On or around Sat, 4 Nov 2006 09:57:17 -0000, "Badger"
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>> And the DII has lock-up in both 3rd and 4th don't forget, giving the
>>> illusion of more gears.
>> yer learn summat new every day.
>
> Oh, and FWIW, there's no reprogramming available for the EAT (Electronic
> Automatic Transmission), mainly (I suspect) because it's an adaptive system.
> My DII (V8, of course!) will hunt between 3rd, 3rd locked, 4th, 4th locked
> when on hills with our 22' caravan behind it so I tend - if it's a long
> hill - to manually select it back to 3rd and let it lock and unlock as it
> see's fit until I'm "over the hill" (no sarcasm, please!) then re-select
> 4th. just seems less strenuous that way to me.

Reassuring. That's exactly what I do.

> It's a good system all in all, with the adaptive shift being more tailored
> to the vehicle than the earlier purely hydromechanical versions of the 'box,
> but I have heard the general "complaint" from other TD5 owners that they'd
> like it to hold 4th locked for a little longer when towing / using wider
> throttle positions.

I'm told that a chip upgrade will help with this (on a diesel, anyway)
as the increased torque in the midrange helps to keep the speed up and
therefore the box changes down less. It certainly worked that way when
I had the 300Tdi chipped.

Any ideas how the adaptive shift works, what it does, and why?

--

Richard Brookman

2001 Disco 2 Td5 ES Auto
1971 Series 2a 88" petrol
1991 Transit campervan

Peter Harrison wrote:
>>
> I found the gearchange map on the disco owners club site. That
> indicates that (presumably on the flat) it should get into fourth by
> about 40mph for 50% throttle. I will have to find a bit of room
> somewhere to try that. Clearly I have a new (more leisurely?) driving
> style to learn. I miss the auto box on my TD4 freelander that I just
> exchanged. Ah well...
> Pete

It is very easy to mistake the torque converter locking up to be the
gearchange. The actual gearchange should be almost imperceptible while the
lock-up causes quite a drop in revs.

Huw

Huw wrote:
> Peter Harrison wrote:
>> I found the gearchange map on the disco owners club site. That
>> indicates that (presumably on the flat) it should get into fourth by
>> about 40mph for 50% throttle. I will have to find a bit of room
>> somewhere to try that. Clearly I have a new (more leisurely?) driving
>> style to learn. I miss the auto box on my TD4 freelander that I just
>> exchanged. Ah well...
>> Pete
>
> It is very easy to mistake the torque converter locking up to be the
> gearchange. The actual gearchange should be almost imperceptible while the
> lock-up causes quite a drop in revs.
>
> Huw
>
>
Ah - interesting. I assumed the drop in revs was more indicative of the
gear change. Either way, I don't get that final change until quite a
high speed. Thus, for most of my daily, nominally country, route I am
running with the revs higher than need for the speed. That, I guess, is
where all the spare deisel goes.

Took a run on open roads yesterday (M6 and A14 to Tixover - Great day)
with the cruise control set to 65mph. Very relaxed and fuel consumption
was looking good until I spent a couple of hours in low range up and
down hills.

Pete

On or around Sun, 05 Nov 2006 19:40:17 GMT, Peter Harrison
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>>
>Ah - interesting. I assumed the drop in revs was more indicative of the
>gear change. Either way, I don't get that final change until quite a
>high speed. Thus, for most of my daily, nominally country, route I am
>running with the revs higher than need for the speed. That, I guess, is
>where all the spare deisel goes.

from hazy recollection of reading the test figures, the 3rd-4th shift drops
the revs by about 300 and the TC lockup by about 200, but that could be
nonsense, I'd have to look it up to be sure.

>Took a run on open roads yesterday (M6 and A14 to Tixover - Great day)
>with the cruise control set to 65mph. Very relaxed and fuel consumption
>was looking good until I spent a couple of hours in low range up and
>down hills.

hehe.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Beyond the horizon of the place we lived when we were young / In a world
of magnets and miracles / Our thoughts strayed constantly and without
boundary / The ringing of the Division bell had begun. Pink Floyd (1994)