Discovery 2 cold start problems

matt101 · Jan 9, 2019

Morning all.
I know this has been covered loads and I have done searches but cannot seem to find anything relating to my problem.
I have brought a 2004 discovery td5 (owned for a month now)
Love the car but it has a issue starting from cold, it turns over and instantly fires but then immediately cuts out so it doesn't actually run. It will sometimes do this 3 or 4 times and then start and run fine or it can do it up to 10times before it will run. Either way it will always start and then run perfect all day.
I have tried the fuel bleed procedure, this makes no difference, I have also replaced the fuel pump relay and I have just replaced the glow plugs but to no avail.
The injector wiring loom looks clean and dry.
Any thoughts on where to look next?
Thanks in advance,
Matt

1988smithy · Jan 9, 2019

Injector seals and washers

matt101 · Jan 12, 2019

Hi all,
I replaced the injector seals and washers this morning, wasn't as bad of a job as I thought.
I'm yet to test the car from cold but I have a couple of pics of the old washers and was just wondering your opinion on them, do they look particularly bad? Normal?

matt101 · Jan 15, 2019

Hi guys,
This doesn't seem to have cured my starting issue.
Any others ideas where to look next?
Thanks

1988smithy · Jan 15, 2019

Those washers were well due.
Were you surgically clean when you did them and did you clean the injector seats in the head so there wasn't any trace of carbon?

Did you use genuine seals and washers?

Have you checked your battery?
Have a search on td5 battery voltages but i think it should be over 12.5 engine off, shouldn't drop to less than 11.2..? when cranking and should be 14 or more when engine running. But please check these figures.

Also do a drop test on the voltage

sierrafery · Jan 15, 2019

You really need to plug in a dedicated tester cos it might be an ECU topside switch failure or crank sensor issue... so see if there are any fault codes logged to rule out a management issue before you spend more money or time trying to fix something mechanical while the problem can be on the "other" side

Discodevon · Jan 15, 2019

You need to plug it in really, this may or may not tell you the issue but td5s can sometimes be a pain to diagnose what is causing the starting issue but I’m sure you will get there with it

matt101 · Jan 15, 2019

Thanks for the replys.
I used a genuine seal and washer kit (iv'e read about the cheap ones causing issues).
Everything was cleaned and I made sure I was as carefull as I could be replacing them. It does seem to go abit better now but I think that may just be in my head.
I will do the battery voltage checks and get it plugged in next and give an update.
Thanks again.

matt101 · Jan 20, 2019

Right, a quick update.
I have eliminated the battery, this is ok.
I have also had the car connected and diagnostics read, no faults stored.
First thing this morning again it took 4 attempts to get started, it cranks over and instantly fires then cuts out (it won't actually run). When it does start after how ever many attempts it starts perfect and runs fine all day?
Summary of what iv done;
Battery tested
New injector seals and washers
New fuel pump relay and main relay
New glow plugs
Injector harness and ecu all dry/clean.
The fuel pump priming procedure seems to make no difference.
I think this is going to be really tricky to find the culprit causing this, it only does it on cold morning below around 4 / 5 degrees.
Any other ideas of what to eliminate next would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Matt

sierrafery · Jan 21, 2019

matt101 said:
I have also had the car connected and diagnostics read, no faults stored.

what device was connected and if it was a proper one the owner of it should have knew to reafd live data too while cranking...if not the diagnose is not finished

Discodevon · Jan 21, 2019

Glow plug relay? Is there any he can swap over to eliminate this lads ?

sierrafery · Jan 21, 2019

matt101 · Jan 21, 2019

Hi,
I have replaced the r6 and r9 relays (no difference)
I had a hawkeye total connected to read the codes (I still have it).
I have checked the live data and it all looks ok but you only have a split second to see the data on cranking.
It cranks and instantly goes to start but dies, depending on the temperature outside will vary on how many times it will do this but ultimately it will start and be fine all day until the next morning.
I'm going to replace the injector loom even tho this looks all dry and see if this helps. Iv also got the fuel filter housing valve on order so will replace this aswel and see what happens.
Thanks

1988smithy · Jan 21, 2019

Would a bump start rule out starter interfering with crank signal?

sierrafery · Jan 21, 2019

If no codes logged it's probably a fuel supply issue cos that's not covered by diagnostics, measure the fuel pressure in the FPR

matt101 · Jan 21, 2019

I've not tried to bump start it yet, il give this a go.
Il also try to measure the fuel pressure and see what results I get.
Thanks

matt101 · Jan 27, 2019

Fuel pressure tester now on order, waiting for it to arrive.
In the meantime I have replaced the injector loom and air bleed valve and fuel filter to no avail.
I have started parking in a quiet area and have noticed in the morning if I put the ignition on and then put my ear down by the filter housing I can hear air in the system. I have filled the tank to the brim and rechecked and again first turn of ignition and I hear air.
I will wait for the fuel pressure kit to turn up, but any ideas here, fuel pump? Leaking injector?
Thanks

Si Click · Jan 27, 2019

An odd one. Your last post sounds as if air is getting into the system at rest, bleeding itself through the failed starts and then running correctly once the air is gone. However, this does not explain (to me at least) why bleeding the system before start does not work, nor why it only happens when cold.
Changing the fuel filter can introduce a fair amount of air into the system, are you sure you got it all out? I find it can take 2 or 3 attempts - and 2 or 3 cups of tea, before it is fully bled. If there is any left it could skew the symptoms and therefore diagnosis.
The fact that it fires but then dies does suggest that this is a fuel issue rather than the ECU preventing start (low voltage/crank sensor etc), but I would try a bump start asap in order to properly rule out the starter anyway. When you ruled out the battery what was the cranking voltage?

Flatfour · Jan 27, 2019

Would a faulty coolant temperature or fuel temp sensor sensor be giving the ecu incorrect data and upsetting the fueling / starting at lower temperatures? It might be worth reading the live data for these sensors.

matt101 · Jan 27, 2019

I'm quite sure I bleed the system well after the filter change, the fact the fault is still exactly the same makes me confident of that.
Today it started second attempt, I have just driven a faultless 70 mile round trip but I know tomorrow it will take at least 2 attempts to get it started again.
I will give the bump start a go in the week when I can get a hand off someone.
Fuel and temp live readings all show normal (I did recheck them this morning)
Battery wise I connected another car using jump leads with the second car running.
It's a pain to try and diagnose as you only get a couple of chances in the morning then it goes and it's fine all day.

Discovery 2 cold start problems

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