Disco 3 - Response from 5th gear.

"hugh" <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>, Larry
> <[email protected]> writes
> >or made by his tractor of sundry trucks. Not to mention the problems that
> >horses cause.
> >
> >These eejit ramblers would have us back in the dark days of horse and
cart,
> >and the ruts and mud were there back then for sure before the invention
of
> >the internal combustion engine or even the steam engine.
> >
> >
> Most of these eejits are townies and have no experience of the way in
> which farm tracks are almost perpetually knee deep in mud for most of
> the winter, churned up by farm animals and tractors.
> --
> hugh
> Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

I want to have a word with the local idiot rambling group in the Wye where
they insist on walking down narrow(ish) main roads on the road and not the
pavement (on the other side of the road) and get really arsey when you
nearly flatten them against the wall... They cause congestion and its
massively inconsiderate and dangerous especially as they have kids with
them...

They;re given pavements why don't they use them aka the Green Cross Code
etc.... or does the right to roam mean in the public highway?

Dave

On Thursday, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "Ian Rawlings" wrote:

> On 2004-12-15, BigBird <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > would do a damn site more damage than a few ramblers, horses and the
> > occasional tractor
>
> Blimey, there's precious little that can do as much damage as a
> tractor, I don't think even a fat disco 3 driven by a not very good TV
> presenter could even hope to match those monsters! I've seen them
> cutting 2 feet into wet ground with a single pass, those tyres are
> designed to cut. They're the real monster on byways as far as I'm
> concerned. I've lost count of the lanes I've driven that have been
> heavily pitted and rutted but suddenly the ruts veer off into a field
> and the lane continues on in excellent condition.
>
> So the very idea of him doing more damage than a tractor is absurd. I
> don't agree with the article, but that kind of talk isn't helping.

Tractors aren't intended to dig in that much. It does no good to the
soil structure. Sometimes, harvesting a crop, or dealing with livestock
(and you can't just not go to the livestock) you have to travel in
conditions where the tractor, or any vehicle, will do damage.

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

Wrought under license granted by Her Majesty's Apostropher Royal AD MMIV

In article <9dfb1b1e4d%[email protected]>, beamendsltd wrote:
>
> aggressive attitudes. And a cheery "Good Morning" to ramblers
> works wonders for PR.
>
> Richard

I always make a point of acknowledging peds on lanes and try to give a
cheery hello or good morning/afternoon to them. Most of the time it's
greeted by stony face stares that say WTF do you think you're doing here!

That's when they don't just blank you, as plenty do!

--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.

"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2004-12-15, BigBird <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> would do a damn site more damage than a few ramblers, horses and the
>> occasional tractor
>
> Blimey, there's precious little that can do as much damage as a
> tractor, I don't think even a fat disco 3 driven by a not very good TV
> presenter could even hope to match those monsters!

Did you watch the feature? Try again.

> I've seen them
> cutting 2 feet into wet ground with a single pass, those tyres are
> designed to cut. They're the real monster on byways as far as I'm
> concerned. I've lost count of the lanes I've driven that have been
> heavily pitted and rutted but suddenly the ruts veer off into a field
> and the lane continues on in excellent condition.
>

So you're saying you don't think farm vehicles should be able to use green
lanes to go about their business or you'd like to see the rest of the lanes
torn up deliberately by ****s in there 4x4s as a form of leisure activity.

> So the very idea of him doing more damage than a tractor is absurd.

I rather think you are. Try looking at the profile of the ruts and ask
yourself if it fits a tractor or a Disco 3 being drifted practically side
on.

Now the tractor ruts you are whinging about may have taken yearsof legitimit
business to create. Now look at the mess created in a couple of runs by you
best mate in his 4X4 driven wrecklessly.

> I
> don't agree with the article, but that kind of talk isn't helping.
>

Helping what exactly. Have you anything helpful to say? NO! I think you just
saw an opportunity to have a go at people in bobble hats or whatever you
call them.

So do you think it is a responsible article to recommend people go hacking
down green lanes in 4X4 as a leisure activity? You say that you 'dsagree'
with the article. What does that mean? I merely said I could understand why
the article may offend or upset some people and you began a diatribe in
rebuke.

Do you really know what you think?

"dht" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "hugh" <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> In message <[email protected]>, Larry
>> <[email protected]> writes
>> >or made by his tractor of sundry trucks. Not to mention the problems
>> >that
>> >horses cause.
>> >
>> >These eejit ramblers would have us back in the dark days of horse and
> cart,
>> >and the ruts and mud were there back then for sure before the invention
> of
>> >the internal combustion engine or even the steam engine.
>> >
>> >
>> Most of these eejits are townies and have no experience of the way in
>> which farm tracks are almost perpetually knee deep in mud for most of
>> the winter, churned up by farm animals and tractors.
>> --
>> hugh
>> Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
>
> I want to have a word with the local idiot rambling group in the Wye where
> they insist on walking down narrow(ish) main roads on the road and not the
> pavement (on the other side of the road) and get really arsey when you
> nearly flatten them against the wall... They cause congestion and its
> massively inconsiderate and dangerous especially as they have kids with
> them...
>
> They;re given pavements why don't they use them aka the Green Cross Code
> etc.... or does the right to roam mean in the public highway?
>

Unless they all had Landys parked round the corner I rather think your
wasting your time here. I'm sure there are some rambling related groups you
can go have your wobbly in.

On 2004-12-16, "David G. Bell" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Tractors aren't intended to dig in that much.

No, this was pretty wet ground and was while helping the landowner to
recover his stuck 4x4 (can't remember model, a Toyota of some kind I
think on road tyres). He dug his tractor out and while wandering off
to the barn he was cursing and swearing about how much mess it was
going to make ;-)

> It does no good to the soil structure. Sometimes, harvesting a
> crop, or dealing with livestock (and you can't just not go to the
> livestock) you have to travel in conditions where the tractor, or
> any vehicle, will do damage.

Don't worry David, I wasn't saying that tractors are evil, they are
vehicles designed to do a job that often involves pulling heavy loads
over (or through!) some very high rolling-resistance surfaces. What I
was wingeing about was that someone seemed to be saying that tractors
cause less damage than a 4x4, which is plainly ridiculous.

When you consider that 4x4 use on green lanes is going to be most
intense at the weekends, whereas tractor use will be all week long,
then I'm amazed at the amount of moaning that goes on from the antis
about 4x4s tearing up lanes when in my experience on most lanes it's
farm traffic. Perhaps the farmers should use their own tracks rather
than tearing up public tracks? It would be a pain in the arse for
farmers and they've got enough of that already but it's the only way
to stop the damage. I don't see it happening though, not with farming
the way it is at the moment, it's probably hard enough just to pay for
the fuel in the first place let alone cut new paths!

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert

On 2004-12-16, BigBird <[email protected]> wrote:

<absolute ****>

See my reply to David, and also try reading my post again without your
dickhead hat on.

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert

Ian Rawlings had a Brain fart and thus composed the following ...

> Perhaps the farmers should use their own tracks rather
> than tearing up public tracks? It would be a pain in the arse for
> farmers and they've got enough of that already but it's the only way
> to stop the damage. I don't see it happening though, not with farming
> the way it is at the moment, it's probably hard enough just to pay for
> the fuel in the first place let alone cut new paths!

Most farmers I know, and I live in a mostly rural area, do use their own
tracks to fields, or public roads which is what most 4x4 offroading or
greenlaning users also agree green lanes are, or should be. They have as
much right as you or I or anyone to use these lanes. Divide and Conquer is
what all the friggin' tree-huggers are trying to do.

Try to ban Tractors, what else will the farmers do? Why not fight for
farmers help if a green lane you know of is being cut up, they can help more
than you appear to realise, I have access to certain 'interesting areas'
purely by being pro-active and actually speaking with farmers, rather than
being remote from them and simply assuming ...
--
Paul ...
http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php
(8(!) Homer Rules ...
"A tosser is a tosser, no matter what mode of transport they're using."

On 2004-12-16, Paul - xxx <[email protected]> wrote:

> Most farmers I know, and I live in a mostly rural area, do use their
> own tracks to fields,

Yes I know, there are many farm tracks out there that are not green
lanes, I cross them all the time. It's just a shame that some lanes
are being torn up by farm traffic and we're getting the blame!

> They have as much right as you or I or anyone to use these lanes.

Indeed, they own them AFAIK, they own the land but we have access
rights but it's their land. The only solution I can see to get rid of
farm damage on lanes is for them to stop using the lanes, but that's
not practical right now as farming's in a mess and I don't see it ever
happening, so we're going to have to put up with farm damage.

Of course we could just try to make people realise that farming causes
a fair old wedge of the damage we get blamed for, but I don't see them
ever taking it on board :-(

> Divide and Conquer is what all the friggin' tree-huggers are trying
> to do.

Successfully too. I read an article recently that was banging on
about 4x4 users and how they just want to get muddy and how they will
plough through rivers while ignoring bridges, how they scare off the
wildlife with their revving engines, don't give people any peace at
night, are organising massive pushes to open up rights of way to 4x4
use (yes they are but not "massive"), and how the noise of 4x4s has
been "likened to low flying jet fighters"!!!!!!!!!

Where did I read this? Ramblers magazine? The Guardian? Treehuggers
monthly? No, it was "The Field" magazine, August 2004, a magazine
dedicated to shooting, hunting and fishing as recreational sports.
What was that about "Fight Prejudice Fight the Ban"?

> Why not fight for farmers help if a green lane you know of is being
> cut up, they can help more than you appear to realise,

I know, I've attended a few GLASS clearance days, one on the Ridgeway
was attended by a farmer, he drove a tractor with a trailer and
provided tools as well as helping out. He also however is a pig
farmer who was responsible for some major damage on the Ridgeway and
got a bit of a rocketing for it by the authorities, what's the bets
that the "Friends of the Ridgeway" society's publicity shots include
this damage as "evidence" of 4x4 damage ;-)

Since moving out to a tiny village in Dorset about a year ago I've
also just joined Friends Of Dorset Rights Of Way who do a lot of
clearance work, I've yet to get membership details but from their
website they do a lot of clearance work too. I always have clearance
tools with me and have chopped back a fair few (small) fallen trees
and lopped off branches that are sticking out too far.

So I'm not completely ignorant of what is required.

> I have access to certain 'interesting areas' purely by being
> pro-active and actually speaking with farmers, rather than being
> remote from them and simply assuming ...

Not quite sure what you think I'm assuming here.

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert

Ian Rawlings composed the following ...

> What was that about "Fight Prejudice Fight the Ban"?

But that's just it .. Instead of saying it's the farmers fault they need to
be stopped .. say let's join together and see what can be done. All you
suggest is exactly what others are saying to try to stop 4x4's green-laning.
How can you participate and encourage green-laning yet still ban a section
of the community from using green lanes?

It's exactly the same as saying ban 4x4's 'cos they cut up all the green
lanes, they patently don't and neither do all farmers cut up green lanes.
Let's face it, some 4x4's do .. some farmers do, some horses do, some
cyclists do, some walkers do, but they are all entitled to use them and they
should _ALL_ be encouraged to use them more, in my opinion.

All you seem to want to do is shift blame .. "It wasn't me, it was him, stop
him from doing it but let me" ...

--
Paul ...
http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php
(8(!) Homer Rules ...
"A tosser is a tosser, no matter what mode of transport they're using."

On 2004-12-16, Paul - xxx <[email protected]> wrote:

> But that's just it .. Instead of saying it's the farmers fault they need to
> be stopped .. say let's join together and see what can be done.

That's not what I said, and as I also said I DO join together and see
what can be done, see the bit in my previous post about lane
clearances.

> All you
> suggest is exactly what others are saying to try to stop 4x4's green-laning.
> How can you participate and encourage green-laning yet still ban a section
> of the community from using green lanes?

Didn't mention banning, and I also said that it's not practical to
stop farmers using the lanes.

> It's exactly the same as saying ban 4x4's 'cos they cut up all the green
> lanes, they patently don't and neither do all farmers cut up green
> lanes.

Oh look, something else I didn't say! Could you try reading my last
post and notice that I don't use the words "all" where you do, I use
the word "some". You are misinterpreting my posts for some reason.

> All you seem to want to do is shift blame .. "It wasn't me, it was
> him, stop him from doing it but let me" ...

No I don't, kindly read my posts properly. I'm not contributing
anything else to this subthread as it's getting awfully circular.

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert

"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2004-12-16, BigBird <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> <absolute ****>

Perhaps you should consider using that as a sig.

>
> See my reply to David,

You think I'm going to read more of your nonsensical drivel?

> and also try reading my post again without your
> dickhead hat on.
>
Think you have clearly cornered the market for those.
You really are quite worthless.

"Paul - xxx" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ian Rawlings composed the following ...
>
>> What was that about "Fight Prejudice Fight the Ban"?
>
> But that's just it .. Instead of saying it's the farmers fault they need
> to
> be stopped .. say let's join together and see what can be done. All you
> suggest is exactly what others are saying to try to stop 4x4's
> green-laning.
> How can you participate and encourage green-laning yet still ban a section
> of the community from using green lanes?
>
> It's exactly the same as saying ban 4x4's 'cos they cut up all the green
> lanes, they patently don't and neither do all farmers cut up green lanes.
> Let's face it, some 4x4's do .. some farmers do, some horses do, some
> cyclists do, some walkers do, but they are all entitled to use them and
> they
> should _ALL_ be encouraged to use them more, in my opinion.
>
> All you seem to want to do is shift blame .. "It wasn't me, it was him,
> stop
> him from doing it but let me" ...
>

Here in Cambridgeshire the lanes get up quite a bit by farmers harvesting
sugar beet and requiring access to field off the lanes. Once the harvest
has finished, they get out the disks or the rotorvators and regrade the
byway flat. Net result is that lanes can be heavily rutted from November to
February/March and then March to October they are flat and easy. After all,
the farmers want to be able to see how their crops are doing from the
comfort of a Disco or Rangie, not a tractor....

--
Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Vice Chairman, Newsletter Editor and Webmaster (how
much more....)
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Commercial Officer
3.5V8 100" Hybrid, now LPG converted
Part owner of 1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an
offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Fiancée's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and
mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery (the Pug 106 is dead, long live the Pug)

Peterborough 4x4 Club http://www.peterborough4x4.co.uk
GLASS http://www.glass-uk.org
Wayfinder Project http://www.way-finder.co.uk

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:12:50 +0000 (UTC), Simon Isaacs wrote:

> After all, the farmers want to be able to see how their crops are
> doing from the comfort of a Disco or Rangie, not a tractor....

Must have posh (read rich) farmers down your way. They all use various
vintage Defenders up here. B-)

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On or around Thu, 16 Dec 2004 21:43:47 -0000, "BigBird" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On 2004-12-16, BigBird <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> <absolute ****>
>
>Perhaps you should consider using that as a sig.
>
>>
>> See my reply to David,
>
>You think I'm going to read more of your nonsensical drivel?
>
>> and also try reading my post again without your
>> dickhead hat on.
>>
>Think you have clearly cornered the market for those.
>You really are quite worthless.
>
hey, play nicely you lot, now. we don't need to result to personal insults,
so you to just say you're sorry and shake hands...

and BTW, we don't all have to agree on all subjects. Ian's made some valid
points, as have you. stick at that and avoid calling names, the world'll be
a nicer place.

and if you want a group that *really* damages the ground, I give you
forestry felling/extraction equipment...

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

On Friday, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "Dave Liquorice" wrote:

> On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:12:50 +0000 (UTC), Simon Isaacs wrote:
>
> > After all, the farmers want to be able to see how their crops are
> > doing from the comfort of a Disco or Rangie, not a tractor....
>
> Must have posh (read rich) farmers down your way. They all use various
> vintage Defenders up here. B-)

Defenders?

Luxury!

[Python script deleted]


--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

Wrought under license granted by Her Majesty's Apostropher Royal AD MMIV

"David G. Bell" composed the following ...
> On Friday, in article
> <[email protected]>
> [email protected] "Dave Liquorice" wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:12:50 +0000 (UTC), Simon Isaacs wrote:
>>
>>> After all, the farmers want to be able to see how their crops are
>>> doing from the comfort of a Disco or Rangie, not a tractor....
>>
>> Must have posh (read rich) farmers down your way. They all use various
>> vintage Defenders up here. B-)
>
> Defenders?
>
> Luxury!
>
> [Python script deleted]

'course .. we 'ad it tough ...

--
Paul ...
http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php
(8(!) Homer Rules ...
"A tosser is a tosser, no matter what mode of transport they're using."

Its all a moot point, it is the ramblers who do most damage, they have
turned what used to be mere footpaths into broad muddy highways in the
popular areas of the Lake District and Snowdonia.

I think Ramblers would do less damage if they took those heavy boots off and
went barefoot.


--
þT

L'autisme c'est moi

"Space folds, and folded space bends, and bent folded space contracts and
expands unevenly in every way unconcievable except to someone who does not
believe in the laws of mathematics"



"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2004-12-16, "David G. Bell" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> No, this was pretty wet ground and was while helping the landowner to
> recover his stuck 4x4 (can't remember model, a Toyota of some kind I
> think on road tyres). He dug his tractor out and while wandering off
> to the barn he was cursing and swearing about how much mess it was
> going to make ;-)
>

On 2004-12-18, Larry <[email protected]> wrote:

> Its all a moot point, it is the ramblers who do most damage,

Certainly in the grand scheme of things, there's just so MANY of
them... All that methane as well ;-)

Mind you, kudos to them for the right to roam stuff, as an ex-amateur
photographer who is looking to get back into it, I'm going to be
breaking out the boots and backpacks sometime. I originally bought
the landy to cart gear around, but the damned thing just took over!

> they have turned what used to be mere footpaths into broad muddy
> highways in the popular areas of the Lake District and Snowdonia.

That's a shame. My mum used to be a rambler and we still have
disagreements about driving off-road sometimes, but she said one of
the reasons she left the RA was because some of the people who
organised walks were taking them down contentious paths through
people's gardens, including one where they broke the fence and reduced
the woman living there to tears. I also read one boast in
uk.rec.rights-of-way some years ago from a chap who carried a machette
around to hack through people's gardens, he boasted that they soon
went back inside when they noticed what he was using to cut down their
hedges.

I've cut a chain or two on illegally locked gates but I think I'd draw
the line at carving up people's gardens. I used to live near
Basingstoke and a byway ran down the side of a church and over
someone's carefully tended lawn. I hopped out of the truck and walked
ahead to see what was going on and found a woman in the garden, and
asked her about the right of way. She said "Fine, just carry on!" so
I walked back to the truck, got in, looked at her lawn and got back
out. I asked if she'd noticed I was in a truck and she jumped a bit
and said that she hadn't noticed, and that the lane was no longer a
byway, just a footpath. It was signposted as one and marked as one on
the OS maps but I hadn't checked on the DM so didn't press ahead. The
lawn had been grown over some reinforced bricks so it looks like it
had been used as a byway/bridleway for some time but it wasn't very
long and I didn't want to **** on my own doorstep.

There are some good byways around that area (I no longer live there)
so if anyone is around the Woodmancott/The Devers area near
Basingstoke (Hampshire) then do explore. The Half Moon Spread Eagle
pub in Micheldever is very good, although the food has gone a bit
overpriced since a change in ownership but still much better than
average.

Flippin 'eck I don't half type a lot! Glad I can type fast or I'd be
here all day!

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert

On or around Sat, 18 Dec 2004 11:58:13 +0000, Ian Rawlings
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>That's a shame. My mum used to be a rambler and we still have
>disagreements about driving off-road sometimes, but she said one of
>the reasons she left the RA was because some of the people who
>organised walks were taking them down contentious paths through
>people's gardens, including one where they broke the fence and reduced
>the woman living there to tears. I also read one boast in
>uk.rec.rights-of-way some years ago from a chap who carried a machette
>around to hack through people's gardens, he boasted that they soon
>went back inside when they noticed what he was using to cut down their
>hedges.

I have to say that this tallies with what I've heard of the RA at times.

They also (in a pre-right-to-roam environment) are apparently very bad at
sticking to where the path is, and prefer instead to wander all across the
crops (grass is a crop too, for them as don't know). If a path goes across
a field, it does so in a particular line and place - it's not or shouldn't
be a right to wander all over the bleedin' place.

but they're just as bloody bas as us 4x4 types, if only 'cos there are about
50 times as many of 'em. Wonder how much CO2 and H20 vapour a typical
rambler produces, and how many it takes to equal the emissions of a typical
land rover?

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Would to God that we might spend a single day really well!"
Thomas À Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xxiii.