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Disco 2 Disco 2 Jate Rings

Discussion in 'Land Rover Discovery' started by Si Click, Oct 3, 2019.

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  1. Si Click

    Si Click Well-Known Member

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    As I still have the standard bumpers on my D2 I would like to add some decent Jate rings front and rear as recovery points. There are a lot of welded versions out there, but I would rather have properly forged galvanised ones, but most say they are not compatible with a D2.
    My questions are; will standard Jate rings will fit the front of a D2?
    Will they fit at the rear of a D2 if a towbar is fitted?
    This company will supply rings with 1/2" ground off (which seems like overkill for 3mm or so) to allow fitment over tow bar fittings, but they are in the states and charging $44 a piece. Does anyone make a wider version in the UK?
    http://www.landroverstuff.com/jaterings.htm

    I was taught never to use the towbar assembly itself for recovery, but I am aware that many experienced people do. Clearly you do not want to use the tow ball itself (in case it shears off) and you would need to avoid sharp edges, so how are people attaching strops/ropes to it?
     
  2. sierrafery

    sierrafery Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  3. Si Click

    Si Click Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, the first of those looks good for the front. The second one is the welded type I'm trying to avoid and is standard size (86mm). It specifically states:
    Not suitable for use with steering guards or tow bar brackets that attach to the same mounting points making the chassis rails wider.
    So my question remains, does anyone make one with a gap of around 90mm allowing the use of a towbar?
     
  4. sierrafery

    sierrafery Well-Known Member

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  5. Bantam1

    Bantam1 Well-Known Member

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    Self fabricate > Flat bar drilled both ends; threaded bar (8.8) with sleeve over strop position. (bolted or welded)
     
  6. neilly

    neilly Well-Known Member

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  7. Si Click

    Si Click Well-Known Member

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  8. Si Click

    Si Click Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, but the originals were forged for strength and I would prefer to follow the tested design.
     
  9. sierrafery

    sierrafery Well-Known Member

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    you'll not find wide and thin and strong whatsoever, you gain in one place and loose on other that's how these things are built
     
  10. Si Click

    Si Click Well-Known Member

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    Not doubting their strength, just the practicality of fitting a 35mm bolt through the available hole in the chassis. I think a Jate ring is more viable than an outsize shackle.
     
  11. sierrafery

    sierrafery Well-Known Member

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    then i misunderstood what you asked for cos you said you need it for the tow bar
     
  12. Si Click

    Si Click Well-Known Member

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    My apologies I thought you were proposing alternatives to a Jate Ring.
    I will look my towbar over and see if there is a suitable attachment point for a large shackle.
     
  13. sierrafery

    sierrafery Well-Known Member

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    Yes, i should have quoted this
    before i linked that big one cos i meant it only for that not for the front
     
  14. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    Any real reason for this? It's not as if the welded ones are know for failing at all. In fact I don't know of a single example where one has.


    Why? It is arguably the strongest point on your vehicle for recovery. Assuming it is the fully assembly and fitted correctly.

    Again, just curious, but what are you basing this on? Towballs are allowed by the Motorsport UK (previously known as the MSA) for recovery in competition use.

    If you are putting the rope over the ball located in a normal location there usually aren't any sharp edges. Sharp edges are more when the ball is mounted at an angle, so the rope is further down towards the bend below the actual ball.

    Such as like this:
    [​IMG]


    Strops are not permitted for recovery in competition use. I would recommend a good kinetic rope with a suitable load rating.
     
  15. Pawl

    Pawl Active Member

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    +1 on 300bhp/ton comments ref use of the towbar for recovery.
    Assuming the towbar is from a reputable company and in reasonable condition, it has the big advantage of spreading the recovery load between both rear chassis rails & usually also the rear crossmember. The towball itself should be a 1 piece forged item attached by huge M16 bolts to the towbar. They're easily upto the job of recovery.
    I've never seen one effected by any recovery - whereas I've seen a few instances of chassis damage with use of Jate Rings on the rear due to the loads not being aligned with the rail or rotting rails letting go.

    The front is a bigger challenge on a standard D2.
    When I started competing off-road in my D2, I started by cutting off the lower section of the bumper off (just above the top of the fog lights [Pre-Facelift]) - as this section would have been broken off anyway if off-roading to the point of getting stuck.
    This allowed use of shaped 10mm plates to be attached to the side of the front chassis rails where the bumper mounts - using extended length high strength M10 bolts. The bottom of the plates then protruded below the bumper bottom & had 21 or 22mm holes that shackles could be attached to. These were only ever used for recovery with a short strop attached between them to spread the load & ensure they weren't being pulled sideways off the chassis rails.
    There's a photo of something similar halfway down this page https://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2-a/151629-d2-front-recovery-points-5.html (although shown on vehicle without standard bumper)
    Here's some on a Facelift standard bumper https://www.bing.com/images/search?...07995213094322765&selectedIndex=17&ajaxhist=0
    The other options are steering guard with integral recovery points, but usually these will need cut outs in a standard bumper. If considering this option it's worth recognising that a good condition standard bumper is often worth more secondhand than a heavy duty steel bumper - so you might as well remove it & sell it before you break it & have nothing of value & still need a replacement bumper
     
  16. Si Click

    Si Click Well-Known Member

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    Then my apologies for not stating the issue clearly. A Jate ring fits through existing mounting points in the chassis using a 10mm bolt. It seems unlikely that those mounting points will take a 35mm bolt. Many vendors, including the second one you supplied the link to in post #2, make the point that a Jate ring will not fit a D2 if a towbar is fitted to the same mounting point as this effectively increases the chassis width. The company in California I mentioned at post #1 makes a Jate ring with a wider mouth for this very reason.
     
  17. Si Click

    Si Click Well-Known Member

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    Very happy that the towbar is up to the task. The car was bought originally by the owner of Western Towing and it is fitted with one of their products.
    My question is how to make the attachment. Just looping a strop over the tow ball seems insecure and there is a view that the towball can shear off and become a missile, particularly if a snatch technique is used. This one example, there are lots. https://www.4wdingaustralia.com/4x4/20-things-you-should-never-do-in-a-4wd-recovery/. People appear to have died using this technique, so if there is any doubt I would prefer to use some other attachment.
    You could of course pass the strop through the bracket itself and loop it through itself, but surely then the edges of the bracket would damage the strop.
    What is the best way to utilise the tow bar for recovery?
    I am not planning on using my D2 for competition, or even P&P. This is for mild green laning and overland expeds.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
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  18. Si Click

    Si Click Well-Known Member

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    A good point. I have not yet gone for a HD bumper as I have not yet decided if I need a winch. If I add an HD bumper and winch then I need HD springs on the front at least and would probably have to consider a lift as well. The truck handles and rides really well at the moment and as 90% of its overland life will be on tarmac or gravel roads I am loathe to jeapordise that or add weight I don't have to. I just want to have suitable recovery points if I do get stuck.
     
  19. Pawl

    Pawl Active Member

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    I've seen towballs used for recovery of very very stuck vehicles & never seen 1 come off or break. I hate to think what the idiots in some of those YouTube videos are using if the towball breaks or comes off. Maybe the idiots are welding them on or never checking whether the bolt engagement is adequate or that they're tight. All of the "incidents" I've seen on YouTube have involved stupidly used shackles attached to items on the car that aren't upto the job which fail causing the shackle to become the missile - usually worse when kinetic (very stretchy) ropes are used.
    Looping the rope end around the ball might sometimes be necessary if your trying to pull the vehicle upwards due to the lie of the land - but isn't ideal as it can damage the rope.
    Earlier this year, mine (all 2.5 tons of it) got stuck in 2 foot plus of gloop - full length of the car, upto the rocksliders each side - 2 cars had to be coupled together to snatch recover it as 1 made no impression at all. The towbar / towball was fine, I was more worried about the rear crossmembers of the 2 Defenders trying to pull me out.
    For info there are now "soft", rope shackles now available which are ideal as they have winch rope strength, but minimal weight. I haven't seen 1 in use yet to know if they can be incorrectly attached.
     
  20. Pawl

    Pawl Active Member

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    If you're going to keep the standard front bumper, the "drop plates" I linked to are probably the best solution, with the bridle attached between them to spread the load. The bridle is then fed through the loop on the end of the main recovery rope (definitely don't use a shackle !).
    If there's a likelihood of getting stuck, you can keep the bridle in place, hung off the front of the bonnet, ready for use - lol.
    For the couple of years before I changed to my First Four Shadow bumper, the car was always recovered OK via this set-up - although front recovery is far less common than rearward recovery.
    BTW I don't think you could mount & use Jate Rings at the front with a standard bumper .
    I can understand the dilemma about changing to a hd steel bumper, but eg the First Four bumper non winch bumper has the advantage that it looks great as well as being very functional & you can mount a winch discretely behind it if & when you want with the rope outlet just below the bumper.
    At worst you may want to fit LR winch springs, but you wouldn't need to lift the car
     
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