Disco 1 300TDI Weird Starting Problem

Hi All,

I'd appreciate any help you guys could give in giving me some pointers on a starting problem on my car that's starting to baffle me....

We've had the car (a '96 ES auto) for nearly 13 years, during which time its always started well. Recently however, when starting the car 1st thing in the morning, the car sometimes takes an absolute age turning over before it starts to finally splutter into life. When it eventually fires there are plumes of smoke from the exhaust until it starts to settle down (presumably unburnt fuel). Once its started its fine for the rest of the day. Thinking it was glowplugs I've replaced all of them with new Beru plugs (to no avail). It's also just had a new starter ('cos the old one packed up totally) and the battery is absolutely fine.

Could it be the glowplug timer relay? (the glow plug light comes on / goes out as per its always done and the connections are clean and bright). For all the world it's just like it's drained the fuel off overnight (although the smoke on start up makes me think this is unlikely). As it's got the electronic injection pump system I'm aware that there are a number of fuel control solenoids in the system. Could it be one of those sticking? If so which one would be the likely culprit? Any light you guys could bring to bear on the subject would be very much apprecaited!!

Thanks!!

leak off / fuel delivery pipes split allowing fuel to drain back to the tank?

Many thanks for your input.

Having thought about split / leaking fuek pipes I've already had a look but I can't see anything obvious. I've got to the point of wondering whether the fuel is syphoning back into the tank from the filter due to a faulty valve in it (the car's always had genuine LR filters throughout) but I'm not sure as to whether that's even feasible. What's also throwing me is the smoke when it does start up (which I'm taking to be unburnt fuel). As I said its a really weird one...

what colour is the smoke?

Sounds like mine the timing belt had jumped a tooth and thus the injection timing was up the creak

Hi, the fuel won't be draining back into the tank as it it injecting hence the smoke unburnt excessive fuel,
I would start by looking at the Glow relay next to the main engine bay fuse box as they take a positive feed direct from the battery and this often corrodes while your there the fuse for the glow plugs its in that box.
I would expect one of these to be your fault, oh and while your there check the battery earth lead (the crimp 10mm in the middle of the lead) as this can throw up charging faults were the alternator won't be working at its best just 13.5v out put instead of 14.2v this will cause the battery to be in poor condition this will cause the glow plugs to operate poorly and the starter to crank slower hindering the start procedure.

And finally if you check and double check all that advance your timing 2 degrees as they are dependent on there timing been cock on and if you belt hasn't been changed for a while the natural where will cause the timing to slip out of line very slightly and if it was set near the edge of its parameters when it was first done then it may well have gone out causing poor start up.

BUT my moneys on the first part of the post !!! lets us know as a fault with out a solution is not progress

Many thanks for all of your input. Re: the timing belt I'm pretty anal (having had a couple of them snap on other cars) about getting it changed regularly. As such the one on it now is only around 18 months old. As I also - at the same time - had the timing belt pulleys replaced I'd be pretty surprised if the belt has slipped. However, on the basis that its certainly not impossible I'll keep that possibility on the back burner in case all of the other options end up drawing blanks.

Re: the colour of the smoke it is a dirty greyish / black colour.

From your inputs I think the next stage is to look at changing the glowplug timer relay (I've already checked the fusible link to it and found it to be fine). I've also checked out all of the main battery earth leads (all OK and cool when drawing cranking currents). If that doesn't cure it I guess the next stop will be the pump timing. Having never done that before on a 300TDI is it an easy job to do?

Thanks again for your help!!

I would say leak off pipes as well, maybe lift pump on the way out, smoke is probably air in fuel

In update: Last Friday I took the new glowplug timer relay that I'd bought (which seemed to work except for the fact that the glowplug light didn't come on with it unlike the old one) back to where I bought it from. Suffice to say that, having tried 5 new relays on the car they declared their whole stock of 20 new relays as faulty and gave me my money back!!!

One good thing that came out of it however was all the pulling & pushing of the connectors onto & off of the original relay meant that the relay itself came loose in the casing. So... on Sunday I carefully prised the relay out of the case and cleaned up the main relay contacts that feed the juice to the glowplugs. Having refitted the relay to the car it started up 1st time (although the weather was warm last Sunday). So I'm now at the point where I'll have to wait and see if I've fixed it or if its still the same.

BTW: I'm very interested in the comment on the lift pump as I've see references to lift pumps not working correctly but have no idea as to the type of symptoms that this may exhibit (apart, obviously, from the engine just stopping). Can anyone enlighten me?

Thanks!!

When lift pump has gone they run even slower than normal-good guide is failing to hold top gear and pulling on a motorway incline.It will run on the injection pump alone drawing fuel but not as well as when the lift pump is feeding the injection pump

Crack open the bleed screw on the filter with engine running-diesel should show in reasonable quantity-if no diesel shows or even worse sucks air assume lift pump fubar (assuning filter is good of course)

biolandy said:

When lift pump has gone they run even slower than normal-good guide is failing to hold top gear and pulling on a motorway incline.It will run on the injection pump alone drawing fuel but not as well as when the lift pump is feeding the injection pump

Click to expand...

Many thanks for that as I think you may have answered another query that I've had about the car for some time in that it seems to lack power when towing, although everything seems alright when its solo. The auto box also seems sometimes to have trouble locking out at 50mph (it was only reconditioned 18 months ago by Ashcrofts).

Is there any way to test the lift pump or is it just a case of getting a new one and fitting it (the car has done over 165K miles and hasn't to my knowledge ever had a replacement pump)? Also are there any replacement pump brands you recommend / suggest I steer clear of?

Thanks!

You can check the pump as I posted above.
I would only ever fit a Delphi replacement.
Britpart simply do not work long.
If you already have a delphi fitted,it will have a screw in the middle of the cover-undo this screw and remove cover to expose a gauze underneath-if mucky,clean it-also check your sedementer if still fitted

biolandy said:

You can check the pump as I posted above.
I would only ever fit a Delphi replacement.
Britpart simply do not work long.
If you already have a delphi fitted,it will have a screw in the middle of the cover-undo this screw and remove cover to expose a gauze underneath-if mucky,clean it-also check your sedementer if still fitted

Click to expand...

Many thanks Biolandy: I'll try a new pump and let you know how I go on.

Thanks again!!! :tea::tea:

I'm with biolandy, get the Delphi. Had to replace a Britpart one once as it started to let oil out of the engine. Had the Delphi, never had a moments problem. Seem to remember they are around the £40.00 mark, though you may be able to get cheaper by shopping around.