Diesel Fuel Pump Issue - won't start

Ok, I'll start from the beginning. Drove home one evening with needle hovering on empty. Got home OK and switched off but the next morning it would turn over but not start. Presumed the tank was empty so I filled it from a jerry can and popped off the feed pipe to to the fuel filter and cranked it. No fuel flowed so I presumed the tank fuel pump had died and ordered a new one (had checked the fuses and they were good and had bypassed fuel relay). The new pump arrived and I began cutting a hole under the back seat to access the old pump (thanks to the template on this forum). Before, I removed the old pump I checked for live at the terminal at the pump - no live (during heater plugs on). I then bypassed the fuel pump relay again by feeding a live from the battery to terminal 5 on relay socket and got live down by the pump. I reconnected old pump but still not pumping so I suspected the old pump really was knackered and removed it. I then also suspected the relay was faulty and swapped it for another but no change. I then put my multimeter on the relay socket and determined that I was getting no live from the computer. I also realized I need 2 new olives to fit the new pump so that is another delay. Any thoughts on why I am not getting a live from computer to the pump relay socket?

Thanks Richard

Loss of sync, needs diagnostics.

Datatek said:

Loss of sync, needs diagnostics.

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Thanks,
Once I have the right olives and the new pump fitted, any idea if it can be driven with the pump relay bypassed? I'm not a fan of getting the thing flat bedded 30 miles to the nearest garage with the necessary diagnostic kit. Or is there software I can download to my laptop and buy a cable to do this?
Richard

Richardq said:

Thanks,
Once I have the right olives and the new pump fitted, any idea if it can be driven with the pump relay bypassed? I'm not a fan of getting the thing flat bedded 30 miles to the nearest garage with the necessary diagnostic kit. Or is there software I can download to my laptop and buy a cable to do this?
Richard

Click to expand...

Actually, on reflection, it might not be loss of sync, the pump only runs with the glows on or cranking on early models.
Check the fuse box for signs and smells of burning.
If it is loss of sync, it will not start as the stop solenoid in the FIP does not activate and the DCU does not allow the engine to run until it gets a valid sync code from the BECM, this can only be corrected with diagnostics.
No cheap diagnostics for the P38 apart from the EAS, you need Nanocom, Faultmate or similar.

Datatek said:

Actually, on reflection, it might not be loss of sync, the pump only runs with the glows on or cranking on early models.
Check the fuse box for signs and smells of burning.
If it is loss of sync, it will not start as the stop solenoid in the FIP does not activate and the DCU does not allow the engine to run until it gets a valid sync code from the BECM, this can only be corrected with diagnostics.
No cheap diagnostics for the P38 apart from the EAS, you need Nanocom, Faultmate or similar.

Click to expand...

Fuses are good except for number 26 which has always been blown (I think it is the low range switch motor and that hasn't worked since i bought it - was going to tackle that later) I have a cold so can't detect smell of burning. Would disconnecting the battery and reconnecting it make any difference? If i was getting 12v at the FIP stop solenoid would that suggest it has not suffered loss of sync? I was also thinking the fuel cut off switch down in the drivers footwell might be the problem but how do I reset it?

Richard

Richardq said:

Fuses are good except for number 26 which has always been blown (I think it is the low range switch motor and that hasn't worked since i bought it - was going to tackle that later) I have a cold so can't detect smell of burning. Would disconnecting the battery and reconnecting it make any difference? If i was getting 12v at the FIP stop solenoid would that suggest it has not suffered loss of sync? I was also thinking the fuel cut off switch down in the drivers footwell might be the problem but how do I reset it?

Richard

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Look for blued contacts on relays & fuses if you can't smell.
Disconnecting the battery may give you more problems if you don't have the EKA code and know how it works.
12 volts at the stop solenoid would say sync OK.
Never looked at the cut off switch, instructions are in the owners manual or RAVE.

PUT IN YOUR LOCATION, there may be someone local with diagnostics

Stop switch in the footwell is accessed by a small panel that you can access without any tools. Inside is the switch - just press it to reset. If you are in the Isle of Man I have TestBook.

Thanks Guys,
I will check the cut off switch and if live at injection pump solenoid. Once I have the correct size olives and fit the fuel pump I will see if still no live at the pump relay. Live near tiny village called Ballinspittle , Co. Cork IRE

Datatek said:

Actually, on reflection, it might not be loss of sync, the pump only runs with the glows on or cranking on early models.
Check the fuse box for signs and smells of burning.
If it is loss of sync, it will not start as the stop solenoid in the FIP does not activate and the DCU does not allow the engine to run until it gets a valid sync code from the BECM, this can only be corrected with diagnostics.
No cheap diagnostics for the P38 apart from the EAS, you need Nanocom, Faultmate or similar.

Click to expand...

Pump only runs with glows or with engine running on pre 1999 models. Runs with glows with engine running AND with cranking on MY1999 up.

wammers said:

Pump only runs with glows or with engine running on pre 1999 models. Runs with glows with engine running AND with cranking on MY1999 up.

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Wrong way round again, put it down to my becoming senile.

hi richard, this happend to me a few months back and it was an 80amp fuze that had blown due to a glowplug earth wire earthing out which stopped the pump pumping derv, it was located in the ecu compartment in a black plastic box screwed to the ecu, take the ecu out turn it upside down and you cant miss it, someone on here will explain it better than me but you must check it out for the sake of a 40 pence fuse, ps,just spoke to my mate who sust mine out and its the glow plug control unit, for the sake of a fuse have a look,good luck.

With glow lamp lit or engine running on pre 1999 models or also whilst cranking on MY1999 on models, you should have 12 volts to pin 1 relay 12. Grounded through pin 2. That should pull relay 12 and put power supplied to pin 3 from fuse 39 10 amp pre 1999, 20 amp MY1999 on, to pin 5. Switching on fuel lift pump.

Datatek said:

Wrong way round again, put it down to my becoming senile.

Click to expand...

wammers said:

With glow lamp lit or engine running on pre 1999 models or also whilst cranking on MY1999 on models, you should have 12 volts to pin 1 relay 12. Grounded through pin 2. That should pull relay 12 and put power supplied to pin 3 from fuse 39 10 amp pre 1999, 20 amp MY1999 on, to pin 5. Switching on fuel lift pump.

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Thanks. Mine is a 1997 and with the glow lamps lit unfortunately I am not getting a live 12v on pin 1 relay 12. I can get 12v at the pump if I bypass the relay but need to figure out why no 12v at Pin1 when glow plugs lit… Richard

bob7 said:

hi richard, this happend to me a few months back and it was an 80amp fuze that had blown due to a glowplug earth wire earthing out which stopped the pump pumping derv, it was located in the ecu compartment in a black plastic box screwed to the ecu, take the ecu out turn it upside down and you cant miss it, someone on here will explain it better than me but you must check it out for the sake of a 40 pence fuse, ps,just spoke to my mate who sust mine out and its the glow plug control unit, for the sake of a fuse have a look,good luck.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I will check tomorrow. I am getting glow plug lamps lighting up at the moment when trying to start so that would suggest the above fuse is still good???

Richardq said:

Thanks. Mine is a 1997 and with the glow lamps lit unfortunately I am not getting a live 12v on pin 1 relay 12. I can get 12v at the pump if I bypass the relay but need to figure out why no 12v at Pin1 when glow plugs lit… Richard

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Power for pump when glows are lit comes from a splice into power line to glow plug #6. Check for power at plug 6 when lamp is lit. If there is power, either splice is faulty or diode in fuse box has failed. If no power check glow relay and bus lines.

wammers said:

Power for pump when glows are lit comes from a splice into power line to glow plug #6. Check for power at plug 6 when lamp is lit. If there is power, either splice is faulty or diode in fuse box has failed. If no power check glow relay and bus lines.

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I checked for power on the glow plugs and they are not coming on at all. Fuse F26 is also blown and keeps blowing when I plug a new one in. This fuse has been blown for months so I didn't think this could be the problem I am having now???

bob7 said:

hi richard, this happend to me a few months back and it was an 80amp fuze that had blown due to a glowplug earth wire earthing out which stopped the pump pumping derv, it was located in the ecu compartment in a black plastic box screwed to the ecu, take the ecu out turn it upside down and you cant miss it, someone on here will explain it better than me but you must check it out for the sake of a 40 pence fuse, ps,just spoke to my mate who sust mine out and its the glow plug control unit, for the sake of a fuse have a look,good luck.

Click to expand...

I think I found this black box. But it doesn't look like it would have a fuse in it. When you say the ecu, you mean right behind the battery?

bob7 said:

hi richard, this happend to me a few months back and it was an 80amp fuze that had blown due to a glowplug earth wire earthing out which stopped the pump pumping derv, it was located in the ecu compartment in a black plastic box screwed to the ecu, take the ecu out turn it upside down and you cant miss it, someone on here will explain it better than me but you must check it out for the sake of a 40 pence fuse, ps,just spoke to my mate who sust mine out and its the glow plug control unit, for the sake of a fuse have a look,good luck.

Click to expand...

Good tip!!!
The fuse (looks like an aluminum bridging plate) was burnt through. Any idea will the local auto factors have this?