Diagnostic Hardware what to buy.

Hi all,

In my previous post http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f10/my-p38s-eas-progress-report-106713.html I said I was going to 'invest' in my P38 so I have decided to buy some diagnostic hardware.

For those of you that have it would would you recommend I get, the only caveat is that I must be able to use the hardware on vehicles other than my own. There's no point in spending 1.5K on stuff that will only work on mine.

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Woogoo

P38 diagnostics are unique, you can buy single or multi vehicle.

Datatek said:

P38 diagnostics are unique, you can buy single or multi vehicle.

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What! So are you saying that if I buy this kit for my P38 then later I get a newer model RR the kit is as much use to it as a hand brake on a canoe

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Woogoo

woogoo said:

What! So are you saying that if I buy this kit for my P38 then later I get a newer model RR the kit is as much use to it as a hand brake on a canoe

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Woogoo

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There are systems you can get that you can add to for various vehicles including Land Rover. But i think you will not scratch the surface for £1500.00. Maybe that would get the hardware, software and connections for various vehicles can cost a fortune.

wammers said:

There are systems you can get that you can add to for various vehicles including Land Rover. But i think you will not scratch the surface for £1500.00. Maybe that would get the hardware, software and connections for various vehicles can cost a fortune.

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Yeah fair enough, but I'm not wanting to set myself up as a mechanic, but I would like to be able to help other LR / RR owners (in their time of need), kind of makes sense to me, and a pointless excercise and expensive toy for one's self.

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Woogoo

woogoo said:

Yeah fair enough, but I'm not wanting to set myself up as a mechanic, but I would like to be able to help other LR / RR owners (in their time of need), kind of makes sense to me, and a pointless excercise and expensive toy for one's self.

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Woogoo

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Take a look at Black box solutions then. But an affordable one will be vehicle specific. The guy who runs it is careful to make sure anything universal is seriously expensive, maybe because he is aware that Range Rover diagnostics can be very lucrative. The Rover testbook system is out of the question.

This has been done to death many times and is often very devisive with people getting indignant at BBS charging 'so' much for their diagnostics, and taking particular offense to Colins unique brand of PR (should have seen him a few years back ).

For me the P38, much as I love it, would be long gone with me down ££££'s on the transaction if I didn't have Faultmate and the support of their forum. Simple as that. So I'm more than willing to fly the flag for them as most owners of their system are.

Storey Wilson is doing trojan work on a free version but I'm afraid that the new baby has won the race to be born so as a father of 3 under 4 myself I wouldn't say that time is on his side to finish it out in the timeframe he had planned. Its going to take support from other like minded people to get that over the line.

The most cost effective way of doing it right now is a single vehicle licence, forget about your friends. If they really need it they can pay for a multi vehicle module for the particular ECU they want. If you change to a newer car you just have to buy the software, no hardware, the second time for the price of 3 fault reset trips to dealer.

The reality, much as some on here find it hard to digest, is that if BBS charged twice what they do for it, the economics will still fall in your favour as long as you intend to keep the vehicle for a few years.

A little known fact about the Faultmate is that it has 3 'identities' built in. So you can have a single vehicle licence for your P38 on one, an SV licence for the wifes Freelander on the second (or your friends P38 but that gets messy) and then you can build up multi vehicle licences on the 3rd identity as need requires (say you decide to start a business fault reading much like Irishrover on here) all on the same piece of hardware.

I second Spud on everything he said there.

Just by having the single vehicle licenced software is enough to keep you out of the dealers or independant's. If you change your vehicle you can get the diagnostics scrubbed for the old & relicenced for the new for £50 odd.

I've got ten's of thousands of pounds worth of diagnostics, & the faultmate, although the cheapest is miles ahead of any competitor & personaly, i'd say the best in the world. Recommended 100%

I have a single vehicle Blackbox MSV and endorse fully SpudH,s thoughts.

I've already passed a PM or two with Irishrover about this and so far BBS would be the way to go. I can see the point of 'friends' can wait or make a small investment themselves.

As I said to Irish I intend to buy sometime next week so I'll be putting a 'shopping list' together. I know nothing about these devices but I know what I expect from the hardware I'd buy.

I want access to everything on my P38 2.5 DSE I'm not asking you to prepare my 'shopping list' but a hint of what I actually need would be useful.

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Thanks,

Woogoo

woogoo said:

I want access to everything on my P38 2.5 DSE I'm not asking you to prepare my 'shopping list' but a hint of what I actually need would be useful.

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Thanks,

Woogoo

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Its pretty straight forward for you then. Just get a Single Vehicle licence package on either an MSV or MSV Extreme hardware. If you've already got a laptop then thats it! Its a lot easier if your laptop has a serial port (although I think they might now have a USB version) so you're not messing with Serial to USB convertors.

If you don't have a laptop and see no other need outside diagnostics for one then I strongly recommend the Panasonic toughbook CF-27's they sell (You can sometimes pick them up even cheaper on ebay but You'll have service/warranty if you go through BBS and it'll come with the faulmate software already loaded - important as most CF-27's don't have cd-rom, they're floppy drive vintage!)

If you do decide to take the plunge setting the system up initially can seem a bit of a tedious/involved process but there are clear, exact instructions which you must follow through every step which also force you to use the support forum - this is done deliberately and is soooo worthwhile!!. Once thats done you're away and I promise you won't look back.

It's easy for me to sit in the comfort of my armchair and say "Get this module"-it's a must have, say the HEVAC when tomorrow your EAS goes tits up...o.k. all being well, a mail to BBS with your plastic details and an hour later you have the module installed (Provided it's not a weekend or Bank Holiday)...they have plenty of them in Cyprus!!!
Be realistic, what area is giving you major problems..usually, speaking from experience, it's the old faithfulls...HEVAC, EAS and security reteaches, especially on the diesel EMS.
I decided to spend some of my nest egg on the full set of software when I retired, simply because of the lack of diagnostic support other than main stealers over here in Ireland having paid out serious money for someone to replace a becm which was still under warranty when I know now that all it needed was unlocking and the Alarmed state reset.
As I said to Woogoo in my PM, the setup has cost me nearly £2000 over the years, I do not want to get the money back in 3 months...in fact, almost 3 years down the line, I am almost there.
I could splash out loads on modules for Disco's, L322's, Gaylanders, Defenders etc. but I do NOT run a business, I run a P38 and like to think that I am aware of the problems that fellow owners get, and if I can help, I do at a price that I think is fair, based upon the return on my investment.
When it comes to BBS..I have found them to be first class, both from a support and service prospective. I look at the overall setup...the "Gaffer" BBSGuy..love him or hate him (Like Marmite!!) tells it as it is, can't stand fools, and sometimes seems aloof...BUT...has 110% confidence in his product...if there is a problem, they will do their utmost to resolve it, the support is first class. Before you ask, I have no commercial connections with BBS, I am not on commission nor do I get any "Favours". I speak as I find. Several people have tried to emulate the level of software and capabilities of BBS without success.
I worked for HP who did the Test BooK diagnostics system and had contact with their software engineers in Corvallis, USA, even they privately acknowledged the greater capabilities of the BBS equiment.
We would all like something for next to nothing but we live in a real world and at the moment, the BBS products are the best available for the cars we have chosen to own.
:behindsofa:

At one time you were, if you bought a new vehicle, tied to the franchised dealer network. If you did not get your vehicle serviced by them your guarantee was void. Laws were introduced firstly in the USA to stop this tying to a dealer. When vehicles started to be controlled by electronics it became easy for manufacturers to make vehicles dealer specific again. OBD (on board diagnostics) meant makers could code their vehicles access to be dealer specific. In other words a code on say a Ford meant something different on a Chrysler. So an international convention was agreed to make all codes mean the same. So it should have been easy for anyone with simple equipement to read those codes. Unfortunatly whilst all codes now mean the same, the protocols needed to access them are not controlled by convention. It is very simple to read codes on many makes of vehicle who's manufacturers have toe'd the line so to speak. But Land Rover are an exception to this and still insist on making, as far as is possible, their vehicles dealer specific, as far a diagnostics are concerned. This then leaves the door open to some, granted very clever people, to develop and market their own version of the Testbook for Land Rover. The only OBDII compliant thing about a Range Rover is that the code for ECU temp sensor faulty is the same as any other vehicle. Apart from that it's a sham.

It has rarely been my priviledge to read such educated, thoughtful and well put comments as i have read on this thread.

Not only about our equipment and it's capabilities in comparison to others, but also about me, and i must say, i whole heartedly agree with all of it. My warmest thanks to all contributors.

I can certainly be quite arrogant, i am definately very self opinionated, and have an extremely high belief in myself and my capabilities and knowledge. As mentioned, I really do not suffer fools or lazy folk at all and i certainly do not mince or sugar coat my words.

I respect that these are not exactly the best attributes to be some PR or sales guy and i can only apologise to those it offends.

However, before considering such personal attributes to be without merit, please consider how much of an absolute necessity they are and how much anyone must ultimately have them if they are to even consider undertaking what did, much less achieve what i have.

Back in 1996 when even the first P38 was still in warranty, all there was was Land Rover dealers and their TestBook. You could not even look at one unless you owned a franchise and having one, was regarded as a license to print money. Every indication was that they intended to monopolise and capitalise on that situation as much as possible, fleecing and holding to ransom every single Land Rover owner for as much and as long as they could, and despite legislation trying to intervene and stop that, they simply side stepped it and are still trying as best they can today.

Quite arrogantly, armed with nothing more than what you all have, ie a Computer and a P38, i decided to single handedly take them on, with all their
technological might and their masses of money, to not only stop them, but to actually beat them at their own game. Believe it or not, that took some doing, even for me.

good on you cos without you and people likeyou, we would still be running to the stealers..

woogoo said:

I've already passed a PM or two with Irishrover about this and so far BBS would be the way to go. I can see the point of 'friends' can wait or make a small investment themselves.

As I said to Irish I intend to buy sometime next week so I'll be putting a 'shopping list' together. I know nothing about these devices but I know what I expect from the hardware I'd buy.

I want access to everything on my P38 2.5 DSE I'm not asking you to prepare my 'shopping list' but a hint of what I actually need would be useful.

--
Thanks,

Woogoo

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There's a kit list of modules on the BBS site. It does miss at least one important module despite the PR saying it covers everything, but it covers almost all the things you need. Don't forget BBS Colin has offered a 10% discount to Forum regulars.

BBS Guy said:

It has rarely been my priviledge to read such educated, thoughtful and well put comments as i have read on this thread.

Not only about our equipment and it's capabilities in comparison to others, but
also about me, and i must say, i whole heartedly agree with all of it. My warmest thanks to all contributors.

I can certainly be quite arrogant, i am definately very self opinionated, and have an extremely high belief in myself and my capabilities and knowledge. As mentioned, I really do not suffer fools or lazy folk at all and i certainly do not mince or sugar coat my words.

I respect that these are not exactly the best attributes to be some PR or sales guy and i can only apologise to those it offends.

However, before considering such personal attributes to be without merit, please consider how much of an absolute necessity they are and how much anyone must ultimately have them if they are to even consider undertaking what did, much less achieve what i have.

Back in 1996 when even the first P38 was still in warranty, all there was was Land Rover dealers and their TestBook. You could not even look at one unless you owned a franchise and having one, was regarded as a license to print money. Every indication was that they intended to monopolise and capitalise on that situation as much as possible, fleecing and holding to ransom every single Land Rover owner for as much and as long as they could, and despite legislation trying to intervene and stop that, they simply side stepped it and are still trying as best they can today.

Quite arrogantly, armed with nothing more than what you all have, ie a Computer and a P38, i decided to single handedly take them on, with all their
technological might and their masses of money, to not only stop them, but to actually beat them at their own game. Believe it or not, that took some doing, even for me.

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Excuse me but are you telling me and other readers that you, and you alone are responsible for the BBS software and hardware solutions

woogoo said:

Excuse me but are you telling me and other readers that you, and you alone are responsible for the BBS software and hardware solutions

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Basically William ......................YEAH thats EXACTLY what he's saying!!!!!!!!!!!!

the hooded claw said:

Basically William ......................YEAH thats EXACTLY what he's saying!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Fair enough, but I want to hear that from BBS Guy.

Interesting question, you seem surprised.
I had written a long historical addition to my post which i cut off for brevity, but if you would like to read that, i will post it.

In the meantime, in response to your specific question.

Up until 2001, i empolyed only a young assistant called Luke, who was also a very close freind, and worked the same relentless hours as me, but had never written a stich of code before he met me. IIRC i did allow him to write the base code for handling P38 Hevac on his own, but otherwise all code for all ather modules was written by me alone and even to this very Sunday, all hardware is designed and developed by me alone too.

However the last time i soley developed a software module was in about 2005, when i finished writing the modules for the introduction of the BMW L322.

These days, i have a small and very dedicated team, led by Gabriela, who i first imployed as a humble secretery in about 2002, but who i recognised as having intelligence way beyond average, and is now somone i have no shame or hesitating in acknowledging, that i definately could not manage without for on going MSV-2 development, thought all BBS basic bits are developed and produced seperately.
Almost all of our equipment owners will recognise Gabrielas name and respect her as the phonomenal woman she really now is in respect of Land Rover Diagnosic software.

I am however still the boss, and as such very much the driving force and intelligence behind BBS, however, if i were run over by a Bus tomorrow, i have no doubt that someone else could, and will, take my place.