Detroit lockers

About twice a year I use my old series 3 109 to tow a trailer across
some pretty boggy ground. Each time I do this I cause the most mess when
one of the tyres starts to spin. Never have actually got stuck but I
have to do some pretty heavy duty reinstatement each time.
I'm under the impression that I could fit Detroit lockers to my diff's
(salisbury on the back) that would automatically kick in as required and
switch off when I am on the road.

Do they work this way and where can I get some and are they expensive?

TIA
--
Mark Roberts

On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 21:40:06 +0000, mark <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Do they work this way and where can I get some and are they expensive?

So long as you only have one in the rear diff, yes, they work pretty
much just as you say - it locks the spinning wheel (on or off road -
which is why you don't have one in the front diff too, as cornering
gets a tad tricky!) If you want a locking diff on the front, you have
to go for an air locker - which is only engaged when you flick the
switch.

Check the Land Rover comics. I ended up importing two Detroits (I
have two 101s) from GBRovers in the States - about 300 quid or so each
IIRC. Fitting is fairly easy, but an axle spreader is handy.


--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005

"Mother" <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 21:40:06 +0000, mark <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Do they work this way and where can I get some and are they expensive?
>
> So long as you only have one in the rear diff, yes, they work pretty
> much just as you say - it locks the spinning wheel (on or off road -
> which is why you don't have one in the front diff too, as cornering
> gets a tad tricky!) If you want a locking diff on the front, you have
> to go for an air locker - which is only engaged when you flick the
> switch.
>
> Check the Land Rover comics. I ended up importing two Detroits (I
> have two 101s) from GBRovers in the States - about 300 quid or so each
> IIRC. Fitting is fairly easy, but an axle spreader is handy.
>

I've seen the Detroit locker described more accurately an an 'automatic
unlocking diff' due to the way it works.
I believe the 'Trutrac' locking diff is supposed to do the same for the
front axle whilst being able to handle corners!

Info available here:- http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_4.html

I'm tempted meself!

Stew

On Tuesday 07 February 2006 21:40, mark [[email protected]] wrote in
message <[email protected]>

> About twice a year I use my old series 3 109 to tow a trailer across
> some pretty boggy ground. Each time I do this I cause the most mess when
> one of the tyres starts to spin. Never have actually got stuck but I
> have to do some pretty heavy duty reinstatement each time.
> I'm under the impression that I could fit Detroit lockers to my diff's
> (salisbury on the back) that would automatically kick in as required and
> switch off when I am on the road.

How about snow chains?

I'll get me overalls.

--
S3 SWB Petrol Hard-top

"90ninety" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mother" <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 21:40:06 +0000, mark <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Do they work this way and where can I get some and are they expensive?
>>
>> So long as you only have one in the rear diff, yes, they work pretty
>> much just as you say - it locks the spinning wheel (on or off road -
>> which is why you don't have one in the front diff too, as cornering
>> gets a tad tricky!) If you want a locking diff on the front, you have
>> to go for an air locker - which is only engaged when you flick the
>> switch.
>>
>> Check the Land Rover comics. I ended up importing two Detroits (I
>> have two 101s) from GBRovers in the States - about 300 quid or so each
>> IIRC. Fitting is fairly easy, but an axle spreader is handy.
>>
>
> I've seen the Detroit locker described more accurately an an 'automatic
> unlocking diff' due to the way it works.
> I believe the 'Trutrac' locking diff is supposed to do the same for the
> front axle whilst being able to handle corners!
>
> Info available here:- http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_4.html
>
> I'm tempted meself!
>
> Stew
>
>

I have a '96 Disco I with a Detroit Locker in the rear and a Detroit
Tru-Trac in the front. The tru-trac is equivalent to a positive traction
rear diff. The locker is just that... it lock both axles together to give
equal power/torque to each wheel, whether that wheel is planted on the
ground or way up in the air. Having a tru-trac in the front does not give
the under steer a locker would. A locker in the front is only recommended
for the hard-core rock crawler. I use my disco as a daily driver and rarely
if ever experience rear axle clunking due to the locker on pavement.

What nice about the early disco's are the center diff lock on the transfer
box. Now when off roading I am able to distribute power equally between the
front and rear and now side to side. SWEET.

Goto the following link: http://www.greatbasinrovers.com/catset.html They
have the skinny on diffs. I had my rear locker set up here. They built me a
rear diff with locker. Sent me the third member and I returned my used one
to them in there shipping container. A nice swap in swap out. Or you could
do it yourself, whatever floats your boat.

90ninety wrote:

> I believe the 'Trutrac' locking diff is supposed to do the same for the
> front axle whilst being able to handle corners!

I've run Trutracs in the front diff of several part-time 4WD vehicles.
They work just as it says on the box, and combined with free-wheeling
hubs it does nothing when on the road. Fitted to the rear diff they are
effective too, except that they can rattle when cornering (which has
always annoyed me). I've found that fitting them to both axles is
unnecessary except for the most arduous off-road use - I think a winch
provides better value for money than a second Trutrac.


--
EMB

"mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> About twice a year I use my old series 3 109 to tow a trailer across some
> pretty boggy ground. Each time I do this I cause the most mess when one of
> the tyres starts to spin. Never have actually got stuck but I have to do
> some pretty heavy duty reinstatement each time.
> I'm under the impression that I could fit Detroit lockers to my diff's
> (salisbury on the back) that would automatically kick in as required and
> switch off when I am on the road.
>
> Do they work this way and where can I get some and are they expensive?
>
> TIA
> --
> Mark Roberts

I've read good things about Quaife Auto Torque Biasing diffs. Because of the
way they work, you can fit them front or back and they only "cut in" when
needed. Google Quaife.
I don't know anyone who has them, but I have been tempted - only the cost
has stopped me.

Joskin

>How about snow chains?


Snow chains will totally mess up the ground. A nice big floatation type
tyre would be better.

--
Marc Draper

On 2006-02-08, PDannyD <[email protected]> wrote:

> How about snow chains?

Or letting the tyres down? Very cheap! A locker in the rear is very
tempting though, however probably worth trying the tyre route first as
it requires no extra expense.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

I've got tru-tracs front and rear in my Discovery. Can't fault 'em.

--
Neil

Hi I run a Detriot True Trac in the front and a Detroit locker in the rear
both 24 spline for extra strength. I have found them to be an awsome tool
off road. This set-up with the Borg Warner transfer box takes all the
thinking out of whether I need to engage any diff locks before I attempt an
obstical. They have not given my any problems when driving on the road other
than a small amount of torque steer if I have unequal tyre pressures in the
front. Getting used to using the True trac in the front when off road is a
little strange as sometimes you need to dab the brakes to transfer
weight/torque in the driveline to both front wheels.

Downsides I have found to Detroit lockers

If you are traversing a steep gradient and the locker at the rear is driving
both wheels locked it can sometimes try to push the vehicle more at the rear
causing the rear of the vehicle to slip down the slope. Where as if you had
the ARB you could disengage the rear to stop this happening.

Downsides to having any type of locker and 36" tyres are that they are quite
aggressive on the driveline and can easiy break shafts and CV's. Even though
I run an auto box which delivers the power smoother, you still have to be
careful not to apply power when on full lock or really aggressivly back and
forth.

If you are interested in having either a Detroit True-Trac, Detroit locker
or an ARB Locker supplied and fitted to your vehicle or even if you just
want your diffs reconditioning get in touch with....

Steve at Crown Differentials one of the UK's cheapest supplier/ service of
Diffs
Arnside Lodge
Main Street
Granby
Nottinghamshire
NG13 9PQ
01949 859044

Quote REF: BT79

Hope this helps

Brian Tonks
Tonks4x4
27-29 Main Street
Huthwaite
Sutton-In-Ashfield
Nottinghamshire
NG17 2LD
01623 452885

http://www.tonks4x4.com

On or around Tue, 7 Feb 2006 23:39:18 -0000, "90ninety"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Mother" <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 21:40:06 +0000, mark <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Do they work this way and where can I get some and are they expensive?
>>
>> So long as you only have one in the rear diff, yes, they work pretty
>> much just as you say - it locks the spinning wheel (on or off road -
>> which is why you don't have one in the front diff too, as cornering
>> gets a tad tricky!) If you want a locking diff on the front, you have
>> to go for an air locker - which is only engaged when you flick the
>> switch.
>>
>> Check the Land Rover comics. I ended up importing two Detroits (I
>> have two 101s) from GBRovers in the States - about 300 quid or so each
>> IIRC. Fitting is fairly easy, but an axle spreader is handy.
>>
>
>I've seen the Detroit locker described more accurately an an 'automatic
>unlocking diff' due to the way it works.
>I believe the 'Trutrac' locking diff is supposed to do the same for the
>front axle whilst being able to handle corners!
>
>Info available here:- http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_4.html

If you want to throw money at the problem, then you can look into Quaife,
who do dead nice cunning LSDs.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The breezy call of incense-breathing Morn, The swallow twittering
from the strawbuilt shed, The cock's shrill clarion, or the echoing
horn, No more shall rouse them from their lowly bed."
Thomas Gray, Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard.

On or around Wed, 8 Feb 2006 08:43:28 -0000, "Joskin" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>I've read good things about Quaife Auto Torque Biasing diffs. Because of the
>way they work, you can fit them front or back and they only "cut in" when
>needed. Google Quaife.
>I don't know anyone who has them, but I have been tempted - only the cost
>has stopped me.

<AOL>. reckoned to be dead good, if you can afford 'em.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The breezy call of incense-breathing Morn, The swallow twittering
from the strawbuilt shed, The cock's shrill clarion, or the echoing
horn, No more shall rouse them from their lowly bed."
Thomas Gray, Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard.

Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around Tue, 7 Feb 2006 23:39:18 -0000, "90ninety"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>

>> ...
>> I've seen the Detroit locker described more accurately an an 'automatic
>> unlocking diff' due to the way it works.
>>
>> Info available here:-
>> http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_4.html
>
> If you want to throw money at the problem, then you can look into Quaife,
> who do dead nice cunning LSDs.

please excuse a technical query - is there any benefit of an auto difflock
over the manual (electric/hydraulic) type - or vice versa?

--
William Tasso

In message <[email protected]>, PDannyD
<[email protected]> writes
>On Tuesday 07 February 2006 21:40, mark [[email protected]] wrote in
>message <[email protected]>
>
>> About twice a year I use my old series 3 109 to tow a trailer across
>> some pretty boggy ground. Each time I do this I cause the most mess when
>> one of the tyres starts to spin. Never have actually got stuck but I
>> have to do some pretty heavy duty reinstatement each time.
>> I'm under the impression that I could fit Detroit lockers to my diff's
>> (salisbury on the back) that would automatically kick in as required and
>> switch off when I am on the road.
>
>How about snow chains?
>
>I'll get me overalls.
>
I already have Greenway Anacondas on the wheels
I suspect the chains would disappear between the lugs
--
Mark Roberts

In message <[email protected]>, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> writes
>On or around Wed, 8 Feb 2006 08:43:28 -0000, "Joskin" <[email protected]>
>enlightened us thusly:
>
>>I've read good things about Quaife Auto Torque Biasing diffs. Because of the
>>way they work, you can fit them front or back and they only "cut in" when
>>needed. Google Quaife.
>>I don't know anyone who has them, but I have been tempted - only the cost
>>has stopped me.
>
><AOL>. reckoned to be dead good, if you can afford 'em.
Right, I'll let you know how much they are..................
--
Mark Roberts

On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 15:16:37 -0000, "William Tasso"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>please excuse a technical query - is there any benefit of an auto difflock
>over the manual (electric/hydraulic) type - or vice versa?

IMO, yes, in many circumstances, but in general, for serious
mud-plugging, I'd opt for for a Detroit in the back and an ARB air
locker in the front. And air locker really does just what it says on
the tin, and for tricky, slow ascents where you need as much purchase
as is possible, lock everything!


--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005

Joskin Hi,

you now know one who has fitted them and tested them for more than 8 years.

I have one fitted on the rear axle of a 1993 Discovery 200Tdi (tweaked
engine, converted to autobox and BW transfer box) and it works like a dream.

Have also fitted two QUAIFEs (one on each axle) along with their HD
halfshafts and hubs to a friends trialer and it amazed everybody with the
way it performed on the kind of territory and ground that supposedly is only
for 100% selectable lockers. The vehicle was able to go EVERYWHERE
everybody else was going with 100% lockers and was extremely more agile
since you could actually turn your wheel and turn (and not break your
halfshafts)

In finished ninth with a novice driver and without a winch on a semi
trialing - semi winching event.

IF you are locking for the best automaticaly engaging locker look no further
than the QUAIFE. It is expensive but well worth the money. Something like
comparing a Superwinch Husky with those new Taiwanese winches.

Another proposal comes from KAM differentials (www.kamdiffs.com ) They have
just re-introduced their Limited Slip Differential (LSD) with clutch plates.
The principle of operation is logical, performs nicely but clutch plates
tend to get worn and used up and they may need replacement after some time
(something like every 50.000 miles or more) if you a really heavy footed.
But it is relatively cheap and it will get you out of trouble when required.
KAM has also JUST introduced their ALL IN ONE differential locking system
with an LSD for full time automatic operation AND a manually selectable 100%
locking diff and heavy duty halfshafts in the same kit. The price is 810
pounds for the rear kit (if I remember right) plus VAT but you really get
EVERYTHING and BOTH types of locking diff practice.
Something like a belt and suspenders on your trousers. You simply can not
get wrong with it.

Take care
Pantelis

P.S. I do have a connection with both KAM and QUAIFE as I represent and
distribute their products in Greece but I only do so after having tested
their products and being sure that they are really worth their money.






"Joskin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > About twice a year I use my old series 3 109 to tow a trailer across
some
> > pretty boggy ground. Each time I do this I cause the most mess when one
of
> > the tyres starts to spin. Never have actually got stuck but I have to do
> > some pretty heavy duty reinstatement each time.
> > I'm under the impression that I could fit Detroit lockers to my diff's
> > (salisbury on the back) that would automatically kick in as required and
> > switch off when I am on the road.
> >
> > Do they work this way and where can I get some and are they expensive?
> >
> > TIA
> > --
> > Mark Roberts
>
> I've read good things about Quaife Auto Torque Biasing diffs. Because of
the
> way they work, you can fit them front or back and they only "cut in" when
> needed. Google Quaife.
> I don't know anyone who has them, but I have been tempted - only the cost
> has stopped me.
>
> Joskin
>
>

....and Pantelis Giamarellos spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...

> Something like a belt and suspenders on your trousers. You simply can
> not get wrong with it.

Hi Pantelis

Your English is always excellent, but you should be aware that the word
suspenders only means "things to hold your trousers up" in the USA. Here in
the UK, it means something different:

http://altura.speedera.net/ccimg.catalogcity.com/210000/212700/212745/Products/13803952.jpg

Just to be *absolutely* clear.



--
Rich
==============================

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

Hi Pantelis,

Thanks for the info on Quaife ATB diffs.
I heard similar good things about them from a chap in Australia who had
fitted them and basically forgotten about them. But his Landy got him
through sections of track that other vehicles couldn't manage.

Regards,
Joskin