Defender 90 Judder

OK, I'm hoping someone can help me out here.

I have a judder that I need to get sorted. Just started this weekend and although it's not getting worse...yet...I'm concerned.

Engine revs cleanly all the way in neutral.
Revs cleanly and no judder in first and second
In third....if I accelerate to 35mph+ judder starts
Fourth and Fifth....anything over 35mph and the judder starts.

From 35mph+ the judder does not go away and increases to limit much acceleration past 55mph

The judder lessens if I stop accelerating and just coast in gear. It disappears if I knock the gearbox into neutral or dump the clutch.

Part of me thinks it is a fuelling problem and the engine isn't firing properly on all cylinders...but it revs out fine in neutral. I tried changing the fuel filter...just in case it was a simple blockage but no effect. I also think it could be a mounting cos it only happens when in gear and engaged.

Anybody come across this on a Defender 300Tdi before or got any thoughts? I'd be very grateful for any feedback and suggestions.

Cheers
Martin.

if yer in neutral there is very little load on yer injun, as you go up the gears the load gets higher so you need to use more fuel.

so it might be ok in 'N' and the lower gears but struggle to get enough fuel in the higher gears specially wiff a turbo.

Have a look at the prop's, mine were running out. Put the front axle on stands and turn the wheels and the prop will turn, hold a spanner/screwdiver to the side of the prop and see how much it is running out by. Mine was doing it at 40 up to 60 and then my wig was falling off.

could be the cam in the transfer box. ours at work wear out out fast due to high load towing and distances. seems to go crazy around 50mph and you can almost not hang on. then over 50 and it evens out. The fact that you say it stops when dumping the clutch suggests it may not be props as these would still be rotating

G

Try driving it in low range, through the gears. Also, you could possibly try to test if it was fueling by dragging the brakes in a lower gear, to try to simulate the increased load of a higher gear? Not sure how well it would work. And as for this judder, how is it felt? Through the steering wheel, or through the body? And then does it feel like its coming from the floor, the front? I can imagine it would be hard to tell. My LR was misfiring, due to a compression problem rather than fueling and this made it very gutless, and smoke a lot of white smoke (unburnt fuel). While this judder is going on it the LR gutless, or slower than it normally is?

You say it stops when you declutch, does it stop when you lift of the power, like at cruising speed, or when you are on the overrun slowing down? Cos if it still does it on the overrun then I don't think it is engine problems.

Morning All. Thanks very much indeed for the responses so far.

At the moment I'm kinda discounting the transmission side as all the judder stops when freewheeling where the judder is present under load, though I am going to get the Landy up on stands this morning and take a good look and see if I can see any obvious areas of play in the transmission connections etc.

The judder is evident under load having reached 35mph+ and as Lord Slob sez, the higher speeds and higher gears force a higher load...so fuelling is still in the list of definite, and preferred, possibilities.

I'm not getting lots of smoke that I have noticed and the Landy is pulling pretty much as normal until the judder starts...then there feels to be a small loss of drive increasing with speed, (and with my decreasing will to push the Landy too hard).

The judder is first felt through the steering wheel but soon transmits to the body etc but isn't giving me too many clues as to where it starts.

I appreciate all the responses and I'll investigate as best I can. If anyone has any further thoughts I'd be very grateful to hear them!!

UJs?

GRUNT said:

UJs?

Click to expand...

I did wonder meself...

Well....spent a while under the Landy and the UJ's have little or no play in them at all. Checked the mounts for the engine, gearbox and transfer box but all seem to be OK.

The front propshaft sliding joint appears to have no lubrication at all and does have some play in it...not much but I dunno how much there is supposed to be. This splined joint could be worn, both because it looks bone dry and because I've found 2 of the UJ bolts less than finger tight and just floating!

So...should I remove the front prop-shaft and see what happens?? It seems the obvious course of action, the rear seems to have no play in the UJ's or the sliding shaft.

I'll give it a go and see what happens. I just wish I knew what I was doing!!

Martin300TDi said:

I just wish I knew what I was doing!!

Click to expand...

dont we all!

we all started somewhere

G

Griffdowg said:

dont we all!

we all started somewhere

G

Click to expand...

Heh heh...yeah...but I know how much the last video player cost me to replace when I took that apart!!

Unfortunately, despite high hopes, the vibration/judder is still present without the front prop. The rear prop seemed perfectly OK but I'll replace the front and remove the rear just to rule it out. I'll have another look at all the bushes etc wilst I'm there. Any other thoughts on drivetrain issues I can check for???

Could this be a problem with fuelling? Being a doosil, ignition shouldn't be too much of a problem but how do I check injectors etc? Turbo sounds like it's spinning up OK and the injin revs freely in neutral but it feels so much like it's running on 3 1/2 cylinders when under load over 30mph!

To get injectors properly checked you need to take them to a doosil specialist with a spray pattern tester.I would check your fuel filter, and make sure your lift pump is giving out enough pressure first. The fuel filters are easy to replace, thelift pump would require a pressure gauge to be plumbed in somewhere. Where abouts are you based?

Evenin' Boydy

Replaced the fuel filter...first thing I did. Unfortunately no improvement. I'm based over in Rossendale and there's an independent Land Rover specialist in the village near me. People seem to rate them so I'll pop down tomorrow and have a chat.

Had a chat wiv me Fatha too. Used to work fer the Watterboard on Plant so repaired a LOT of Landy's in his time. He was suggesting feeling behind the injectors for the "pulse" of the doozil as it's pumped through the injector and try to feel a difference from a possible blockage. Otherwise, just crack em away from the head and see if the injin note changes less radically wiv any particular one. Not sure-fire but could be indicative.

I thought something like that may work, but then if it is a fueling issue that only happens under lots of load that may not work - with one injector not running at all you may not get it up to enough speed to notice it. Am intruiged about feeling for the pulse though - will you feel it over the engine running? Can you recreate it by loading the car (applying brakes) and trying to pull away?

Jus' to note, if you remove or loosen the injectors themselves, i have been reliably told that it is extremely important that you replcae the little crinkly copper washer around the injector base, as otherwise they overheat. When I had to rebuild my NA i was informed that they were not reusable 'cos they didn' make a good enough thermal contact otherwise. If you do take out injectors, you may also be able to see if one is faulty, perhaps one is more coked than the rest, one of mine had engine oil all over it somehow. You may be able to tell from the state of the glow plugs, but if its only under load then im not convinced there will be a noticeable difference.

Dunno about "feeling" the injector pipes/injectors. Fatha seemed to think it might be indicative and it costs nowt to give it a try. Thanks for the tip with the washers though...I'll make sure I get some before I try cracking them from the head.

I'll see how we go and update later.

Well...a quick update.

ALL SORTED!! And it was the props/UJ's so full marks to them that suggested those.

Apparently the rear prop had a seized UJ, s'why it weren't feeling slack, but seized off centre. The trick with the screwdriver held against the prop to check "true" might have shown that...had I tried.

Anyhoo...front prop not the correct one...rear prop had seized UJ...so local independent swapped both off for some mint, (though 2nd hand), genuine LR props for £150 and the assurance he'll swap 'em again for nowt if I buy replacements if they fail anytime soon.

Sounds pretty reasonable to me. Tip - go to halfords, spend £6 on a grease gun, and keep the bastards greased! Saves a lot of hassle. Glad to hear its all fixed now though.

If you can undo an do up nuts an bolts you could have done it for a nundred quid, with new propshafts.

GRUNT said:

If you can undo an do up nuts an bolts you could have done it for a nundred quid, with new propshafts.

Click to expand...

I can and I guess I could...although I hadn't found any props for £50 each inclusive and with delivery. Where d'ya find them Grunt??

I'm happy enough...yer man did a full inspection for me as well and I'm told genuine usually outlast the cheaper OEM parts.

Did he pit new UJs on em or just replace em?

The splines wear as well which causes a grinding noise with the tiniest bit of movement, the new set-up is £55 from paddocks each and then 4 bolts each end to undo, hours work max for em both, most satisfying end result!

He will prob now replace the ujs at £6 a pop and have some nice new second hand ones to pass on!