Dakar 2006 photo's

beamendsltd wrote:
>as it is not compilation in the "traditional" sense,
> i.e. the source is scanned through at run time, and then something is
> done with it, whereas complied code is converted to machine code
> once an for all and it is the machine code that is executed, not the
> source. I may be being a bit pednatic ;-)

I do take your point here, but AFAIK JIT and dynamic compilation are
cleverer than ordinary compilation, because they can optimise branches
on the fly depending on circumstances.

Steve

Isn't this the most wonderfully OT thread we have had for ages ?

Steve

....and Steve Taylor spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...


> Isn't this the most wonderfully OT thread we have had for ages ?
>
> Steve

Should be headed SFOTILITOROS

So Far Off Topic It's Lost In The Outer Reaches Of Space.

For mere mortals, anyhow

Pint of EP90, anyone?


--
Rich
==============================

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

beamendsltd wrote:
..
> I've seen all that sort of stuff before - it is a very similar debate to the
> Pascal/Ada strong typing vs. the C/C++ lax typing. One side belive that
> by having very strong typing of variables leads to better programs,
> the other that lax typing allows better programming - a subtle difference,
> but a major issue none the less.

As a largely embedded software writer I am strongly in favour of bondage
and discipline languages. I don't see any benefit to lax typing, it
encourages sloppy thinking.

Steve

In message <[email protected]>
Steve Taylor <[email protected]> wrote:

> Isn't this the most wonderfully OT thread we have had for ages ?
>
> Steve

Far more interesting than boring old Landies - well, perhaps not

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

In message <[email protected]>
Ian Rawlings <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 2006-02-05, beamendsltd <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > but C# has had the security removed so it can, and without the users
> > knowledge. Presumably that is at least part of he mechanism used by
> > Mickysoft to see whether your software is legit, and the virus
> > writers find and use the same holes ("back-doors") to do their dirty
> > work.
>
> As an ex-Risc OS user (7-8 years in the 1980's-1990's leaving around
> RO3.4 or so IIRC) I know that there's a lot of inaccurate ranting in
> the scene, I used to be a culprit myself. I wouldn't use anything
> Microsoft for anything important, any Windows things I run are run in
> VMWare with a snapshot to take me back to the point at which the stuff
> worked.
>
> There is however a difference between reality and inaccurate ranting.
> Think of all the **** you hear about land rovers, I've lost count of
> the number of people who tell me that their stock Vauxhall 4x4 on road
> tyres will "go places a landy won't go" and how landrovers are always
> breaking down, and one memorable explosion from someone hanging around
> on the sides of a conversation who butted in to blurt wild-eyed that
> "if you go into a desert in a landrover YOU WILL DIE!". That kind of
> stuff is extremely similar to the ranting that is heard in the Risc Os
> scene, the Mac scene and the UNIX+clones scene. Huge edifices built
> on grains of truth.
>
> I've never run a piece of legit Microsoft code, I wouldn't pay for
> it as it's **** from top to toe, strangely enough I've never had any
> threats, men in black coats, hovering helicopters etc following me
> around.
>

Hang on a minute! Who said anything about RISC OS? I worked with VMS,
PC's, Unix, various embedded OS's for ten years, I have no idea what
the above is supposed to be about, but if you are trying to say I
have some blinkered view of things then just say so. And make a fool
of yourself. I think this discussion is at an end.


> C# is not java with the security removed.
>

You may beleive what you like.

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

In message <[email protected]>
Ian Rawlings <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 2006-02-05, beamendsltd <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > That's not the case - Java, as a whole, is not just the language, it
> > is the Java Virtual Machine, of which there should only be one, the
> > same on all platforms, with device drivers provided to access the
> > particular platforms architecture and OS services.
>
> C# is bytecode, as is java, both can be JIT compiled into native code.
> The Java Virtual Machine is a fancy way of describing an API that you
> call in order to perform things like I/O and GUI operations, java
> itself is a language with a set of classes that make up the "Virtual
> Machine", C# is a language that can be linked with an API that
> provides similar operations, .NET is microsoft's implementation, Mono
> is the subset that runs on other OSes including linux.
>
> Don't confuse Java with the JRE, Java is the language, JRE is the Java
> Runtime Environment which includes an extensive API that makes up the
> mis-named "virtual machine".
>

We'll just have to disagree on that, partcularly in the JVM being
mis-named!

> > A Java applet
> > is just a small program, known as an applet because, unlike C/C++,
> > Ada, Pascal etc etc, there is no requirement to set up a complete
> > application to run a simple program.
>
> A java application on the other hand is not, it's a fully-fledged
> programme just like one written in C/C++ apart from it needing to be
> bytecode interpreted or JIT compiled, like C#. I am running
> JBidwatcher on my linux box right now, it's a standalone app, not an
> applet. There is a difference between java applications and applets.
>

Definately not true - the beauty of Java it is indeed a program(let) in
it's own right, but it depends on JVM being present to work, whereas
a C++ program will run on a processor in its own right, having gathered
all it's resources at compile time, though it will obviously fail
if the OS is not present to handle device drivers etc. A Java program
will do nothing at all without the JVM being present, the processor
could do nothing with it - it would be like trying to execute a text file
as far as the processor is concerned. That's a huge difference.

Ricgard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

In message <[email protected]>
Steve Taylor <[email protected]> wrote:

> Tim Hobbs wrote:
> eir popularity
> >
> > This is a fairly good, balance article on the relative merits of Java
> > and C#. You probably won't like its conclusions though.
> >
> > http://genamics.com/developer/csharp_comparative.htm
> >
>
> Pretty even handed, but I'm sticking to Delphi ATM.
>
> Steve
I like Delphi (Pascal roots etc...), now that *would* start
an argument in a C++ group!

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

In message <[email protected]>
Steve Taylor <[email protected]> wrote:

> beamendsltd wrote:
> .
> > I've seen all that sort of stuff before - it is a very similar debate to the
> > Pascal/Ada strong typing vs. the C/C++ lax typing. One side belive that
> > by having very strong typing of variables leads to better programs,
> > the other that lax typing allows better programming - a subtle difference,
> > but a major issue none the less.
>
> As a largely embedded software writer I am strongly in favour of bondage
> and discipline languages. I don't see any benefit to lax typing, it
> encourages sloppy thinking.
>

Definately agreed, but when you need to just knock up a program
quickly with not much planning then weak typing is distinct advantage
(until it allgoes wrong, of course!). Very strict project management
can, however, compensate, e.g. the Manchester Airport project.

If you are talking about embedded, as in ECU's the the overheads of
C++ etc are far to big.


> Steve

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

On 2006-02-05, beamendsltd <[email protected]> wrote:

> Definately not true - the beauty of Java it is indeed a program(let) in
> it's own right, but it depends on JVM being present to work, whereas
> a C++ program will run on a processor in its own right,

Not without its own version of a "virtual machine", in the form of the
system library API, I suppose you could make it spin around in a loop
with no I/O...

I think we're talking using different language here, and I'm a little
tired of it.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

On 2006-02-05, beamendsltd <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hang on a minute! Who said anything about RISC OS? I worked with VMS,
> PC's, Unix, various embedded OS's for ten years, I have no idea what
> the above is supposed to be about, but if you are trying to say I
> have some blinkered view of things then just say so. And make a fool
> of yourself. I think this discussion is at an end.

I think you do have a blinkered view of things, and I'm only too happy
for this discussion to end.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Ian Rawlings wrote:
..
> I think you do have a blinkered view of things, and I'm only too happy
> for this discussion to end.
>

Still its a first - language and OS wars in a Landrover group
;-)

Steve

....and Steve Taylor spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...


> Ian Rawlings wrote:
> .
>> I think you do have a blinkered view of things, and I'm only too
>> happy for this discussion to end.
>>
>
> Still its a first - language and OS wars in a Landrover group
> ;-)
>
> Steve

Windows is situated at SP145835.

That's an OS grid reference.



Coat...

--
Rich
==============================

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

Steve Taylor <[email protected]> wrote:

> Still its a first - language and OS wars in a Landrover group
> ;-)

wars? nah, just a little spirited chit-chat about language
implementation. didn't see much about o/s issues - thankfully.

In any event - it would appear we are all agreed the web site in question
could do with a makeover.

--
William Tasso

110 V8

On 2006-02-05, Steve Taylor <[email protected]> wrote:

> Still its a first - language and OS wars in a Landrover group
> ;-)

Are there any herns in the group? We could see if we can work some
gun control in too!

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

In message <[email protected]>
Ian Rawlings <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 2006-02-05, beamendsltd <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Hang on a minute! Who said anything about RISC OS? I worked with VMS,
> > PC's, Unix, various embedded OS's for ten years, I have no idea what
> > the above is supposed to be about, but if you are trying to say I
> > have some blinkered view of things then just say so. And make a fool
> > of yourself. I think this discussion is at an end.
>
> I think you do have a blinkered view of things, and I'm only too happy
> for this discussion to end.
>

Praise the lord!

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

In message <[email protected]>
Steve Taylor <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ian Rawlings wrote:
> .
> > I think you do have a blinkered view of things, and I'm only too happy
> > for this discussion to end.
> >
>
> Still its a first - language and OS wars in a Landrover group
> ;-)
>

Ture - can we try comparative religion now? (Ducks...)

> Steve

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

beamendsltd wrote:
>
> Praise the lord!

Oi. We said no comparitive religion.

Steve

On 2006-02-05, beamendsltd <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ture - can we try comparative religion now? (Ducks...)

I don't see how we can prophet from that..

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

In message <[email protected]>
Steve Taylor <[email protected]> wrote:

> beamendsltd wrote:
> >
> > Praise the lord!
>
> Oi. We said no comparitive religion.
>

I should have seen that comming......

> Steve

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay