Daily 110 needs a brake job. Stock or upgrade?

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bankz5152 said:
Vented and slotted discs are fine in slop, literally slings it all out due to the design. Drilled is where the issues occur.

@nobber good to know. May have a look see whats what.

That said I do I have uprated (suited to the current weight, had it weighed and chose accordingly) OME springs on the front and rear so plenty man enough for the job
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You could get on a hill, 30mph, slam on the brakes and see if the front dives much, its the rears though that this effects more. Even worn springs can cause poor brake handling.
 
nobber said:
You could get on a hill, 30mph, slam on the brakes and see if the front dives much, its the rears though that this effects more. Even worn springs can cause poor brake handling.
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That i have noticed. Part of the reason for a total suspension change.

Plenty of hills near by, will give it a go when clear
 
bankz5152 said:
That i have noticed. Part of the reason for a total suspension change.

Plenty of hills near by, will give it a go when clear
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OME are good products, heard a lot of good things about them, not cheap, but you pay for what you get in this world. How do you rate them?

Give the hill thing a try, make sure you are going down hill and not up. :)
 
nobber said:
OME are good products, heard a lot of good things about them, not cheap, but you pay for what you get in this world. How do you rate them?

Give the hill thing a try, make sure you are going down hill and not up. :)
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Rate them very high. Leaps and bounds above anything ive used before. Combined with Koni HT Raids the ride is superb

Well worth the cost imo at the minute. Shall see in a year or so if they have sagged. My old TF springs lost almost 2" in 3 yearso_O

So down hill, hard on the brakes and see how much the front lifts?
 
bankz5152 said:
Rate them very high. Leaps and bounds above anything ive used before. Combined with Koni HT Raids the ride is superb

Well worth the cost imo at the minute. Shall see in a year or so if they have sagged. My old TF springs lost almost 2" in 3 yearso_O

So down hill, hard on the brakes and see how much the front lifts?
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The idea is the front should sink causing the rears to have less traction which may cause them to lock up, of course you dont want this.
 
Cheap as chips everything, upgrades are nice on cars that actually need them.
Britpart callipers are co cheap why mess about?
 
Early 90's had smaller callipers. [ they only had to stop 600/16 or 205/16 tyres ] Changing to so called 110 callipers is just fitting what is fitted to tdi 90 models.
 
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nobber said:
On a rolling brake tester, get the correct figures for braking on the front and rear or just use common sense, rears should not exceed what 80 percent of the fronts? Its common sense to say that if you have stronger braking on the front you need stronger springs to cope,
I have heard of people fitting 110 calipers to 90's as one of these upgrades , I have never seen anyone post results from a rolling test rig to see exactly what they have achieved.

The best thing you can do , if your brakes arnt working properly, is fix them. If calipers are seized, replace them, discs are worn, replace them, pads worn, replace them too. Every few years replace the fluid, if you want piece of mind bring it to a garage with an MOT bay, they can test the brakes on the brake tester.
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nobber said:
On a rolling brake tester, get the correct figures for braking on the front and rear or just use common sense, rears should not exceed what 80 percent of the fronts? Its common sense to say that if you have stronger braking on the front you need stronger springs to cope,
I have heard of people fitting 110 calipers to 90's as one of these upgrades , I have never seen anyone post results from a rolling test rig to see exactly what they have achieved.

The best thing you can do , if your brakes arnt working properly, is fix them. If calipers are seized, replace them, discs are worn, replace them, pads worn, replace them too. Every few years replace the fluid, if you want piece of mind bring it to a garage with an MOT bay, they can test the brakes on the brake tester.
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I think you are ill informed, whilst it is clearly undesirable for rear brakes to lock up, stiffer front suspension will have no influence what so ever. If your current brakes are capable of locking the front wheels on a good surface then bigger brakes wont make the front suspension dip any further as the tyres are the limiting factor.
If the front brakes are uprated, the rears become less efficient in comparison, so the rears are less likely to lock up.
If you reduce the efficiency of the front brakes, the rears are more likely to lock up.
Most brake upgrades increase the size of the front disks and / or increase their ability to dissipate heat e.g. vented discs and are designed to prevent brakes overheating and failing.
I'm puzzled by your assertion that upgraded brakes can make vehicles unstable when braking in corners as the act of braking in corners makes a vehicle unstable irrespective of whether the brakes are uprated or not, infact just lifting off the power can cause you problems.
As has allready been said 110 front brakes are standard on later 90's, no change in front springs though.
 
Rougharse Racing said:
I think you are ill informed, whilst it is clearly undesirable for rear brakes to lock up, stiffer front suspension will have no influence what so ever. If your current brakes are capable of locking the front wheels on a good surface then bigger brakes wont make the front suspension dip any further as the tyres are the limiting factor.
If the front brakes are uprated, the rears become less efficient in comparison, so the rears are less likely to lock up.
If you reduce the efficiency of the front brakes, the rears are more likely to lock up.
Most brake upgrades increase the size of the front disks and / or increase their ability to dissipate heat e.g. vented discs and are designed to prevent brakes overheating and failing.
I'm puzzled by your assertion that upgraded brakes can make vehicles unstable when braking in corners as the act of braking in corners makes a vehicle unstable irrespective of whether the brakes are uprated or not, infact just lifting off the power can cause you problems.
As has allready been said 110 front brakes are standard on later 90's, no change in front springs though.
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How do tyres limit suspension travel? Its clear that if you drive along, then brake, the harder you brake the lower the front will drop, this unbalances the vehicle, lifting the rear, if the rear is lifting it has more chance of locking up, especially in wet conditions. If you have to brake hard on a corner, this scenario isnt ideal.
Under normal driving conditions this may not be a problem, but if you do anything to change a vehicle you cannot assume that it will be driven and only driven under normal driving conditions.
 
nobber said:
How do tyres limit suspension travel? Its clear that if you drive along, then brake, the harder you brake the lower the front will drop, this unbalances the vehicle, lifting the rear, if the rear is lifting it has more chance of locking up, especially in wet conditions. If you have to brake hard on a corner, this scenario isnt ideal.
Under normal driving conditions this may not be a problem, but if you do anything to change a vehicle you cannot assume that it will be driven and only driven under normal driving conditions.
Click to expand...
nobber said:
How do tyres limit suspension travel? Its clear that if you drive along, then brake, the harder you brake the lower the front will drop, this unbalances the vehicle, lifting the rear, if the rear is lifting it has more chance of locking up, especially in wet conditions. If you have to brake hard on a corner, this scenario isnt ideal.
Under normal driving conditions this may not be a problem, but if you do anything to change a vehicle you cannot assume that it will be driven and only driven under normal driving conditions.
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I was saying that tyres limit the amount of braking effort that can be used. you get maximum braking just before the wheels lock, so if you can lock the front wheels with your existing brakes then bigger brakes won't make any difference to when your wheels lock. If there is no extra braking effort then your suspension will act in the same way as with standard brakes, the available grip is the limiting factor.
Dipping suspension does not take weight off the rear, braking effort does.
 
My dad once had a car [ Citron I think ] that had a so called power hydraulic brake system. A selling point the salesman had was demonstrating you could lock the brakes by pushing on the pedal with just one finger ! Daft idea, the thing was bloody deadly, normal braking you soon learned to just rest your foot on the pedal but any panic and you had instant lockup.:eek: Gave myself some good scares in that thing.
 
Rougharse Racing said:
I was saying that tyres limit the amount of braking effort that can be used. you get maximum braking just before the wheels lock, so if you can lock the front wheels with your existing brakes then bigger brakes won't make any difference to when your wheels lock. If there is no extra braking effort then your suspension will act in the same way as with standard brakes, the available grip is the limiting factor.
Dipping suspension does not take weight off the rear, braking effort does.
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We obviously have crossed wires here, I am talking about upping braking efficiency, this is a rather extreme example of how heavy braking will take traction away from the rear of the vehicle. With less traction on the rear the brakes will lock up sooner.

 
Any empty live axled vehicle will have interesting brakes, compared to any modern independent suspension vehicle, unsprung weight plays a part, crap dampers certainly dont help either.
Old shti has to be driven with your eyes and not just your brakes.
 
nobber said:
How do tyres limit suspension travel? Its clear that if you drive along, then brake, the harder you brake the lower the front will drop, this unbalances the vehicle, lifting the rear, if the rear is lifting it has more chance of locking up, especially in wet conditions. If you have to brake hard on a corner, this scenario isnt ideal.
Under normal driving conditions this may not be a problem, but if you do anything to change a vehicle you cannot assume that it will be driven and only driven under normal driving conditions.
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Similar did happen on the way home other day. Wet M25 slip road, sweeping bend. Some ass decides to slam on the brakes to change lanes.

110 stopped dead flat and straight from 60 - 20 very quickly, i was impressed.
 
Job done on the rear, all new parts. Much better! Front next....
But here's whats worrying me this morning. The old pads had shims attached, the new didn't so I put them in without. Was that correct?
 
Mudstyler said:
Job done on the rear, all new parts. Much better! Front next....
But here's whats worrying me this morning. The old pads had shims attached, the new didn't so I put them in without. Was that correct?
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Are you sure they are “shims” and not anti-squeal plates?
 
Missed the thread until now so playing catch up. I'm wondering who takes their tratter on trackdays to warrant vented discs!?
OEM or equivalent pads are usually best, offering consistent, progressive feel throughout normal operating temperatures
The best way to maintain you calipers is a regular fluid change. Dot4 is just fine
 
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