"beamendsltd" <
[email protected]> wrote in message
news:487661c24d%
[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>
> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> "beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:2020bc24d%[email protected]...
>> > In message <[email protected]>
>> > "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>>
>> What it doesn't tell you is the market share compared to the Japanese
>> branded pick-up trucks which have been gaining volume at an outstanding
>> rate. There will always be a core of loyal customers for Defender who
>> need
>> the towing ability which is not supplied by the competition. That is not
>> to
>> say that many wouldn't welcome a better and more modern vehicle to do the
>> job which would also appeal to those that have left the brand and
>> potentially win them back.
>>
>
> The current Jap etc trend trucks are being sold to the life-style brigade,
> who were buying Frontera's, Terrano's etc. They have no desire, or need,
> for a Defender. LR's other models are all doing well in these sectors.
Some go to that market of course, but around here that is a minor market and
most go to farmers, builders, engineers, and public utilities; the same
customers who should be buying LR products.
What is wrong with LR also gaining further customers from the 'life-style'
brigade anyhow? They already have a big market, in fact a leading position
in that sector yet they effectively let others have a major slice without a
fight.
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Also on that site is a statement (lost the link, buggerit) that states
>> > that the new Defender will be buit on the Discovery III platform to
>> > arrive in 2008, in which case they can keep it as far as I'm conncerned
>> > - I want a work vehicle not a poser truck!
>>
>> So do I and I can't see any reason why a Discovery based truck should not
>> be
>> a huge advance as a work truck.
>
> I can - wrong engine philosphy,
Engines are dictated by emmission legistlation so there will be no return to
'simple' TDi200 type engines.
welded "semi-moncoque" (far less easy to
> repair),
I can't see why that should be more of an issue for LR than for the
opposition. If it is involved in a serious chassis-bending accident it will
invariably be an insurance claim.
body panels without the rather miraculous ability of Defender
> and Series to be bashed without bending too much,
You must be joking? My LR is made of thin alloy that dents if you sneeze on
it. It has so many dents on it that it can only ever get worse by having a
serious bending. I cannot see how that would be much different with a Disco
based Defender.
To illustrate this I have to say that my RR has a dented wing and door
already and I anticipate more in future. Oh, and it also has a scratched
front bumper where it drove into a low static machine and a crease in the
back bumper where it reversed into a heavy cattle crush.
I suspect what you are more worried about is bending something new. There
are more important things to worry about.
crappy modern bumpers
> that cant be used as work benches/tools/ladders, reduced departure/attack
> angles, lower driving position, mud-free interior with loads of plastic
> bits to break, etc etc.
>
The bumpers will not be likely to protrude as does the present vehicle. The
angles underneath are not known because it has not been built yet and anyhow
are not critical unless they are totally inadequate IYSWIM. I have lived 21
years with a 110 hi-cap with a tow hitch behind and any new vehicle is
likely to be better than that.
As for fragile plastics, well the present Defender has plenty of that,
including plastic seats that the dog puts its claws through and which cracks
and breaks up in short order. Hopefully the new one will have better
quality, roomier, more comfortable interiors with doors that have concealed
hinges that don't sag and seams that don't leak and stops that don't shear
off easily.
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Anyway, compared to Ford's other "Premier Group" marques, Land Rover
>> > is doing rather well.
>> >
>>
>> If you say so and good job too. They certainly have modern class leading
>> vehicles [apart from Defender] and deserve to do well with those
>> products.
>> Their build quality and reliability issues seem to be under control and
>> my
>> experience of the latest Range Rover over nearly twenty thousand miles is
>> that it has been faultless. Not only is it a superb luxury car but is
>> peerless as a work vehicle.
>
> Lend it to me for a week then - I'll do what I do with my Defender, and
> try
> out a few tasks around customers farms.
For my sins and among other things, I do farm myself. A proper working farm
with triple axle 16ft ifor williams boxes to carry over 200 cattle, long
fencing poles to carry, steep banks to traverse etc. I also have a Defender
110, a RR, a Trooper, a Terrano, and a Cruiser Amazon to compare with. I
have also run other Defenders, another couple of Range Rover classics, a
Disco, a Shogun, a Subaru, a Mitsu pick-up and others to compare with.
I won't however, pay the repair
> bill (sticking a rear crosmember, with extensions, in the back is going
> to be a few hundred to start with, stand on the bonnet to prune a
> few trees,
Although I have never done this with either Defender or RR, or anything else
come to think of it, I can see no reason why not. It is however a lazy man's
way of doing things and shows little respect for the machine. I have never
heard of this complaint from owners of 'Japanese' trucks either and I
seriously suspect that it has never occured to them that it is acceptable to
use the bonnet as a platform for themselves to work on.
open gates with front bumper..... etc etc). You can't even
> put a cup of tea on the wing!
Well you can with the Disco and RR, on the bonnet anyhow. Most gates around
here, between fields anyhow, seldom swing on hinges and if they do they
have latches or baler twine to hold them shut. Having said that, I do use
the front tyre of tractors in such a way occassionaly but every time I tried
with a LR the bumper missed an upright and the gate either hit the wing or
hooked onto the bumper, so it is not effective anyhow.
> Utterly inappropriate for my uses, and those of the majority of our
> customers. I think we have a completly different view of what a work
> vehicle is.
It seems so. You want a retro toy and I want something that works
efficiently and reliably while providing my drivers and myself with the
comfort and safety that they deserve. It would also be nice if fence posts
fitted properly in the back, which is why I run a hi-cap which regularly
carries two four foot round bales of silage in the back.
>
>> If any new Defender can be built in several
>> variants, has comfort and reliability while not sacrificing work
>> potential
>> over a long life, then it would be a certain winner as long as it was
>> reasonably cost competitive.
>
> But it wont - it'll be aimed at the "double-cab" life-style trendies and
> Chelsea Tractor brigade - the rest of the LR range has left its roots
> well and truly behind, so there's no reason to suppose any new Defender
> will buck this trend.
>
Any new Defender is pie in the sky. I seriously doubt whether it will be
replaced by anything more than a rebadged and slightly modified Ford pick-up
truck. That is if they wish to compete in the utility market at all.
Huw
