Crossmember rust

Hi

I'm relatively new to defender ownership and would appreciate some pointers.

There was advisory on rust on the crossmember at the last MOT. I've kept an eye on it since then but not really checked it out up close until today.

I've given it a good attack with a screwdriver and hammer today and found a few well rusted areas where there are now holes. I've gone over it all with a drill and wire brush attachment, and painted over all the areas with red oxide to halt it getting worse - as a stop gap. I've taken the worst of the bad metal out.

My questions, based on the photos below, are

- can this be fixed by welding, or is it beyond that?

- is there any immediate risk from the location of the rust holes

- does anyone know a decent welder in the bath area that they can recommend?

Cheers

If it was mine I'd patch it.

If you do go that route, bash the crap out of the surrounding area with a hammer though. You need to weld your patches onto good strong metal that is thick enough to weld to.

If something is rusted right through like that, you'll find that the area around it will be quite thin. Even though it will feel solid with a screwdriver prod, you will blow holes in it with a welder. So to ensure it is thick enough, a good few hard smacks with a hammer. If it dents, its not thick enough.

No idea about welders in your area. But if you're practically minded, I'd always suggest having a go yourself. If you plan to keep this defender, bearing in mind the cross member has that level of corrosion. You will probably find that the chassis is in a similar state. So you'll save money in the long run to weld it yourself rather than pay someone each time.

Mine was the same, lasted 2 years then got a new one put on.

yeah, definitely a patching job. In picture 4, I think those holes are meant to be there anyway?

Thanks for the replies. I need to do the same test with the chassis but hope its in better condition.

Ha, yes they're meant to be there. It's just that they were starting to flake (delaminate?) around the hole. You can't really see in the photo.

Good news that it's patchable, thanks. Does it make any difference that the big holes are near the area where it joins to the chassis? (I don't know the technical term).

Any tips on where to start on learning to weld - how hard is it, what would the initial outlay be for equipment? Could I do it in situ or would I need to strip some parts away?

Thanks.

Find someone friendly with a welder to show you , dont buy equipment first some people can never learn to do it properly and it could be wasted money.
That said mig welding is unbelievably easy and should only take a short time to learn with a good welding set.

Is there anyone you know that has a welder? Perhaps you can get some time with them to see how you get on with it? I found initial outlay for a rig quite cheap, but that's because I bought a crap one from an auction, and have since upgraded my MIG twice, and my stick welder once too. I just felt like I was fighting the machines rather than learning to weld before, so having a good machine really helps. I'd get a good second hand one, well supported with spares, rather than a crap brand new one. Other things you'll need would be a grinder with a selection of metal grinding and cutting discs, some clamps, an auto-darkening welding helmet is almost a must (£25 on ebay). Go on to MIG Welding - The DIY Guide, and have a look at the tutorials/forums etc

There's some great training vids on u tube too. I'd be practising a bit first on equally manky metal to learn how to do it cos that bit is on show

I'm no expert welder but can do a decent enough job. If you want to bring it up to Stroud we should be able to sort it and you can have a go with my kit.

Patching should be fine on that, if you have a towball and there is rust around the centre of the cross member, then I would say replace it, one good jolt on the towball with a couple of tons could rip the drop plate clean off

That's really good of you Blue Beasty, thanks. I'd like to take you up on the offer.

I'll PM you to arrange. Cheers

Re. the toe ball - are you saying replace the toe ball plate or the cross member? Ta

Hungrydave said:

That's really good of you Blue Beasty, thanks. I'd like to take you up on the offer.

I'll PM you to arrange. Cheers

Re. the toe ball - are you saying replace the toe ball plate or the cross member? Ta

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If there is rust where the towball mounts to, and you plan to use all of the 3.5 tonne capacity, then you need a new crossmember IMO, you should be ok with a patch on yours

Dave90 said:

If there is rust where the towball mounts to, and you plan to use all of the 3.5 tonne capacity, then you need a new crossmember IMO, you should be ok with a patch on yours

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Tow bars are part of the mot now too!

Diesel Do said:

Tow bars are part of the mot now too!

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:5biagree: Exactly

Diesel Do said:

Tow bars are part of the mot now too!

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I'm not 100% sure about what they would test. I recently had my mot and the guy said it's the tow bar electrics that are due to be tested, but only the new euro type socket, not the old one that everyone has. He said he'd only seen that new socket on a couple of very new motor home type vehicles.

Saying that i wouldn't be surprised if they picked up on obvious structural mounting points that were rusted.

I have been told that on the chassis, anything within 12inches of a suspension mount must be fixed properly.

corrosion within 30cm of a tow-bar mount was fail before anyway

Yupp hole by tow hitch, fail. No tow hitch, pass! Assuming the hole isn't near something like suspension mount, seat belt mount, seat mount, hand brake mount etc etc 12" for the inch people
Believe they also check general security, bolt length and size, nuts must be locking or locked by some means, washers must be used? But let's face it not many testers are that keen most are realistic. I was!

mundungus said:

I'm not 100% sure about what they would test. I recently had my mot and the guy said it's the tow bar electrics that are due to be tested, but only the new euro type socket, not the old one that everyone has. He said he'd only seen that new socket on a couple of very new motor home type vehicles.

Saying that i wouldn't be surprised if they picked up on obvious structural mounting points that were rusted.

I have been told that on the chassis, anything within 12inches of a suspension mount must be fixed properly.

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Welding for mot purpose has to be continuous around the patch, or if a repair panel is used it can be fixed in the same method as the original, ie spot welding! So on a chassis it really has to be a continuous seam. Also not just blobbed on top, if the corrosion assessment tool can get under it they can fail it again. Rarely (thankfully) you come across a patch that is so badly welded you can just pull it off. Fail!

Structural corrosion within 12" of most things classed as important is a fail. Suspension mounts, seat mounts, seat belt mounts, hand brake mounts, pedal mounts, steering component mounts the list goes on but my brain doesn't basically if the component can cause an accident it will come under this heading! Soooo, that covers most of the chassis, there's always the odd few inches in which you can have a hole and pass but surprisingly few. The stupid thing is you can have a hole in a disco boot floor, cos its in a prescribed area it is an automatic fail, but it in no way affects the suspension! But that's mots for you! You're meant to do just as the book says, nothing else and never think for yourself cos you might start questioning vosa!!!!!