Converting 110 SW to 5 seats

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J

John Page

Guest
Does anyone know if it is possible to get the registration changed for a
110 CSW if you take out the rear seats, My wife's license will not
let her drive anything that seats more then 8+driver and as it's a medical
thing it can't be changed. We really wand a defender with a 2 + 3 seat
configuration and crew cabs are very pricey.

So can we take a 110 with 12 seats, take out center front and rear bench
and then get it classified as a 5 seater?

John

Kangoo 4x4 - soon to be suplemented I hope


 
"John Page" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Does anyone know if it is possible to get the registration changed for a
> 110 CSW if you take out the rear seats, My wife's license will not
> let her drive anything that seats more then 8+driver and as it's a medical
> thing it can't be changed. We really wand a defender with a 2 + 3 seat
> configuration and crew cabs are very pricey.
>
> So can we take a 110 with 12 seats, take out center front and rear bench
> and then get it classified as a 5 seater?
>
> John
>
> Kangoo 4x4 - soon to be suplemented I hope

John,
It is not the seats - it is literally the number of people you carry . Try
having an accident in a Fiesta with six up and see what happens.

To elaborate: Technically you do not even need to take out the seats. All
the preserved buses etc. that you see at vintage rallies have more than
eight but unless you have an appropriate licence you cannot carry more than
eight passengers or your insurance is in-valid. Nobody ever checks, as such,
but if there was an accident then witnesses could be asked and there would
be trouble. To avoid complication you could indeed take out the extra seats
in your Landy (as I have done on my 110, but to gain space) and nobody could
dispute the fact that you might have had more than eight passengers. You
simply declare the number of seats to your insurance company and that is
that. I'm not even sure that it is possible to re-register the vehicle as
different from standard, because the DVLA computer does not like things that
cannot be neatly standardised. They are mostly concerned with regulating
crime through the use of traceable numbers. Your insurance company are much
more interested in the fine details of your car and take what you say as
correct - but if it is wrong (new powerful engine, wrong number of seats,
fitted anti theft device etc.) and you declare incorrectly then the
insurance is invalid from day one. Declare everything correctly: No
problem.

Nick Webster
110 TD5, CPC & PCV licence holder


 
In message <[email protected]>
"NW" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "John Page" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Does anyone know if it is possible to get the registration changed for a
> > 110 CSW if you take out the rear seats, My wife's license will not
> > let her drive anything that seats more then 8+driver and as it's a medical
> > thing it can't be changed. We really wand a defender with a 2 + 3 seat
> > configuration and crew cabs are very pricey.
> >
> > So can we take a 110 with 12 seats, take out center front and rear bench
> > and then get it classified as a 5 seater?
> >
> > John
> >
> > Kangoo 4x4 - soon to be suplemented I hope
>
> John,
> It is not the seats - it is literally the number of people you carry . Try
> having an accident in a Fiesta with six up and see what happens.
>
> To elaborate: Technically you do not even need to take out the seats. All
> the preserved buses etc. that you see at vintage rallies have more than
> eight but unless you have an appropriate licence you cannot carry more than
> eight passengers or your insurance is in-valid. Nobody ever checks, as such,
> but if there was an accident then witnesses could be asked and there would
> be trouble. To avoid complication you could indeed take out the extra seats
> in your Landy (as I have done on my 110, but to gain space) and nobody could
> dispute the fact that you might have had more than eight passengers. You
> simply declare the number of seats to your insurance company and that is
> that. I'm not even sure that it is possible to re-register the vehicle as
> different from standard, because the DVLA computer does not like things that
> cannot be neatly standardised. They are mostly concerned with regulating
> crime through the use of traceable numbers. Your insurance company are much
> more interested in the fine details of your car and take what you say as
> correct - but if it is wrong (new powerful engine, wrong number of seats,
> fitted anti theft device etc.) and you declare incorrectly then the
> insurance is invalid from day one. Declare everything correctly: No
> problem.
>
> Nick Webster
> 110 TD5, CPC & PCV licence holder
>
>

But beware - Direct Line, for example, will not offer insurance on a
110 SW, or breakdown cover, because the vehicle was *built* with more
than 8 seats - regardless of the number it now has. Just be careful is
all I'm saying - suddenly finding yourself uninsured after an accident
will be very costly* and the on-line buying systems often don't make
clear whether the cover is for a 110, or a 110SW as I found out.

Richard
* unless you don't bother insuring it all seemingly.
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
>snipped

But beware - Direct Line, for example, will not offer insurance on a
> 110 SW, or breakdown cover, because the vehicle was *built* with more
> than 8 seats - regardless of the number it now has. Just be careful is
> all I'm saying - suddenly finding yourself uninsured after an accident
> will be very costly* and the on-line buying systems often don't make
> clear whether the cover is for a 110, or a 110SW as I found out.
>
> Richard
> * unless you don't bother insuring it all seemingly.
> --
> www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
> Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
> Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
> Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

Yes, you are quite right, these days there are an increasing number of
companies doing insurance (as oppose to Insurance Companies) who take their
information from a computer database. They advertise apparently huge
savings. When I gasped at a Tesco quotation offered to me they rather
ruefully said that their product was primarily directed at the average small
family car and Land Rovers did not fall into that category. To discourage
"that kind of risk" the quote was not even remotely competitive. Thank
heavens there is a choice of specialist Land Rover insurers to choose from.

Nick


 
On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:17:07 +0100, NW wrote:

> It is not the seats - it is literally the number of people you
> carry. Try having an accident in a Fiesta with six up and see what
> happens.

But that is more people than there are seats. Not quite the same as
less people than seats.

> To elaborate: Technically you do not even need to take out the
> seats. All the preserved buses etc. that you see at vintage rallies
> have more than eight but unless you have an appropriate licence you
> cannot carry more than eight passengers or your insurance is
> in-valid.

I take the point about the insurance but why does the licence use the
words "passenger seats" not just "passengers"? And shows pictograms of
different sized vehicles.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
On or around Mon, 3 Oct 2005 20:15:50 +0100, "John Page"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Does anyone know if it is possible to get the registration changed for a
>110 CSW if you take out the rear seats, My wife's license will not
>let her drive anything that seats more then 8+driver and as it's a medical
>thing it can't be changed. We really wand a defender with a 2 + 3 seat
>configuration and crew cabs are very pricey.
>
>So can we take a 110 with 12 seats, take out center front and rear bench
>and then get it classified as a 5 seater?
>


I think so. Send in the V5 with "New seating capacity" filled in, having
removed the bench seats from the back. No need to remove the centre front
unless you want to.

Then make sure you inform your insurance company, or they'll use it as an
excuse not to pay out if you ever need 'em to.

'course, if you then have more in than 5 or 6, you have problems if caught
at it.

Alternatively, get the missus to pass a D1 test.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Would to God that we might spend a single day really well!"
Thomas À Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xxiii.
 

"Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:17:07 +0100, NW wrote:
>
>> It is not the seats - it is literally the number of people you
>> carry. Try having an accident in a Fiesta with six up and see what
>> happens.
>
> But that is more people than there are seats. Not quite the same as
> less people than seats.
>
>> To elaborate: Technically you do not even need to take out the
>> seats. All the preserved buses etc. that you see at vintage rallies
>> have more than eight but unless you have an appropriate licence you
>> cannot carry more than eight passengers or your insurance is
>> in-valid.
>
> I take the point about the insurance but why does the licence use the
> words "passenger seats" not just "passengers"? And shows pictograms of
> different sized vehicles.
>
> --
> Cheers [email protected]
> Dave. pam is missing e-mail
>
>
>
Probably because the licence simply assumes you will potentially carry as
many passengers as seats and the are various degrees of commercial licence
to cover different capacities. I think there is probably an uneasy
coexistence between Eurolicences with pictograms and what DVLA had enshrined
in small print. There have been many confusing variations over the years.
For example you have to be 21 to hold a psv licence but a 17 year old could
drive an empty bus.

The V5C for my 110CSW does not give the seating capacity because it is in
the group PLG, not a commercial. In fact I've never seen a PLG V5 with
section S1 filled in. Sometimes the manufacturer uses it in the model
description but this is a different thing entirely. In another post someone
is suggesting that the seating be declared to DVLA, end of story. I think
their first response might be is it being used commercially then? We do not
need to get down to tiny details - if you declare the correct number of
seats to the insurance company then there should be no problem and no need
to involve DVLA.
Nick


 
My Ninety is a CSW and originally had bench seats in the back. I took the
benches out as soon as I purchased the vehicle and fitted two forward facing
fold-up seats with 3-point belts. I also fitted a cubby box in place of the
front centre seat.
My insurance certificate states the number of seats as 7.
I always use the same garage for my annual MOT. He does not even look at the
rear seats/belts. He says that they do not count as seats as far as the MOT
is concerned; and the same goes for the rear bench seats with or without lap
belts.
So my insurance company says it's a 7 seater. The MOT will test it as a 2
seater. I swear it is a 4 seater, because it has 4 seats and 4
seatbelts!!!!!!!!!

Stew.

--
1990 Ninety 2.5 n/a D (Jasmine) - the off-road toy
Ex- Freelander Td4 5dr owner - the worst vehicle I have ever had!!!
New Jeep Cherokee Ltd 2.8CRD Auto - freelander replacement.


"NW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "John Page" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Does anyone know if it is possible to get the registration changed for a
>> 110 CSW if you take out the rear seats, My wife's license will not
>> let her drive anything that seats more then 8+driver and as it's a
>> medical
>> thing it can't be changed. We really wand a defender with a 2 + 3 seat
>> configuration and crew cabs are very pricey.
>>
>> So can we take a 110 with 12 seats, take out center front and rear bench
>> and then get it classified as a 5 seater?
>>
>> John
>>
>> Kangoo 4x4 - soon to be suplemented I hope
>
> John,
> It is not the seats - it is literally the number of people you carry . Try
> having an accident in a Fiesta with six up and see what happens.
>
> To elaborate: Technically you do not even need to take out the seats. All
> the preserved buses etc. that you see at vintage rallies have more than
> eight but unless you have an appropriate licence you cannot carry more
> than eight passengers or your insurance is in-valid. Nobody ever checks,
> as such, but if there was an accident then witnesses could be asked and
> there would be trouble. To avoid complication you could indeed take out
> the extra seats in your Landy (as I have done on my 110, but to gain
> space) and nobody could dispute the fact that you might have had more than
> eight passengers. You simply declare the number of seats to your insurance
> company and that is that. I'm not even sure that it is possible to
> re-register the vehicle as different from standard, because the DVLA
> computer does not like things that cannot be neatly standardised. They are
> mostly concerned with regulating crime through the use of traceable
> numbers. Your insurance company are much more interested in the fine
> details of your car and take what you say as correct - but if it is wrong
> (new powerful engine, wrong number of seats, fitted anti theft device
> etc.) and you declare incorrectly then the insurance is invalid from day
> one. Declare everything correctly: No problem.
>
> Nick Webster
> 110 TD5, CPC & PCV licence holder
>


 
"90ninety" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My Ninety is a CSW and originally had bench seats in the back. I took the benches out as soon as I purchased
> the vehicle and fitted two forward facing fold-up seats with 3-point belts. I also fitted a cubby box in
> place of the front centre seat.
> My insurance certificate states the number of seats as 7.
> I always use the same garage for my annual MOT. He does not even look at the rear seats/belts. He says that
> they do not count as seats as far as the MOT is concerned; and the same goes for the rear bench seats with
> or without lap belts.
> So my insurance company says it's a 7 seater. The MOT will test it as a 2 seater. I swear it is a 4 seater,
> because it has 4 seats and 4 seatbelts!!!!!!!!!
>
> Stew.
>

Unfortunately your tester has got it wrong section 5.1 of the MOT manual states
"this inspection applies to all seat belts fitted including child seats/ restraints"
However rear and side facing seats do not require seat belts
--
Andy

SWB Series 2a ( dressed as a 3) "Bruce"
It's big, it's mean it's really, really green


 
In news:[email protected],
Andy.Smalley <[email protected]> blithered:
> "90ninety" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> My Ninety is a CSW and originally had bench seats in the back. I
>> took the benches out as soon as I purchased the vehicle and fitted
>> two forward facing fold-up seats with 3-point belts. I also fitted a
>> cubby box in place of the front centre seat. My insurance certificate states
>> the number of seats as 7.
>> I always use the same garage for my annual MOT. He does not even
>> look at the rear seats/belts. He says that they do not count as
>> seats as far as the MOT is concerned; and the same goes for the rear
>> bench seats with or without lap belts. So my insurance company says it's a 7
>> seater. The MOT will test it
>> as a 2 seater. I swear it is a 4 seater, because it has 4 seats and
>> 4 seatbelts!!!!!!!!! Stew.
>>
>
> Unfortunately your tester has got it wrong section 5.1 of the MOT
> manual states "this inspection applies to all seat belts fitted
> including child seats/ restraints" However rear and side facing seats
> do not require seat belts


so neither rear nor side facing need testing or side facing in the rear or rear or
side facing?
Regret that sentence is too ambiguous to be any definitve use!

--
"He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt her doing it."

If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!


 
GbH wrote:
> In news:[email protected],
> Andy.Smalley <[email protected]> blithered:

>>Unfortunately your tester has got it wrong section 5.1 of the MOT
>>manual states "this inspection applies to all seat belts fitted
>>including child seats/ restraints" However rear and side facing seats
>>do not require seat belts
>
>
> so neither rear nor side facing need testing or side facing in the rear or rear or
> side facing?
> Regret that sentence is too ambiguous to be any definitve use!

Rear and side facing seats do not require seatbelts. However if
seatbelts are fitted (to a rear or side facing seat or child restraint)
said seatbelts are subject to inspection.

Clear enough now?

--
EMB
 
Just looked this up on t'internet. http://www.motester.co.uk/cog.html

Seat belts
Most vehicles after 1965 must have seat belts. Irrespective of that
requirement, all seat belts fitted to any vehicle must be inspected for:

a.. security of seat belt mountings and locking stalks
b.. security and operation of the locking/release mechanism
c.. condition of webbing
d.. retraction of the belt (it is allowed to manually feed it in).
Notes: 1. For technical reasons the inertia locking mechanism is not
checked. 2. On some vehicles the belt is attached to the seat, in which case
the security of the seat to the vehicle would also constitute part of the
seat belt check.

I think this agrees with EMB

Stew.
--
1990 Ninety 2.5 n/a D (Jasmine) - the off-road toy
Ex- Freelander Td4 5dr owner - the worst vehicle I have ever had!!!
New Jeep Cherokee Ltd 2.8CRD Auto - freelander replacement.


"EMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> GbH wrote:
>> In news:[email protected],
>> Andy.Smalley <[email protected]> blithered:
>
>>>Unfortunately your tester has got it wrong section 5.1 of the MOT
>>>manual states "this inspection applies to all seat belts fitted
>>>including child seats/ restraints" However rear and side facing seats
>>>do not require seat belts
>>
>>
>> so neither rear nor side facing need testing or side facing in the rear
>> or rear or side facing?
>> Regret that sentence is too ambiguous to be any definitve use!
>
> Rear and side facing seats do not require seatbelts. However if seatbelts
> are fitted (to a rear or side facing seat or child restraint) said
> seatbelts are subject to inspection.
>
> Clear enough now?
>
> --
> EMB


 
"GbH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In news:[email protected],
> Andy.Smalley <[email protected]> blithered:
>> "90ninety" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> My Ninety is a CSW and originally had bench seats in the back. I
>>> took the benches out as soon as I purchased the vehicle and fitted
>>> two forward facing fold-up seats with 3-point belts. I also fitted a
>>> cubby box in place of the front centre seat. My insurance certificate states the number of seats as 7.
>>> I always use the same garage for my annual MOT. He does not even
>>> look at the rear seats/belts. He says that they do not count as
>>> seats as far as the MOT is concerned; and the same goes for the rear
>>> bench seats with or without lap belts. So my insurance company says it's a 7 seater. The MOT will test it
>>> as a 2 seater. I swear it is a 4 seater, because it has 4 seats and
>>> 4 seatbelts!!!!!!!!! Stew.
>>>
>>
>> Unfortunately your tester has got it wrong section 5.1 of the MOT
>> manual states "this inspection applies to all seat belts fitted
>> including child seats/ restraints" However rear and side facing seats
>> do not require seat belts
>
>
> so neither rear nor side facing need testing or side facing in the rear or rear or side facing?
> Regret that sentence is too ambiguous to be any definitve use!
>


OK try
Unfortunately your tester has got it wrong section 5.1 of the MOT
manual states "this inspection applies to all seat belts fitted
including child seats/ restraints" However rear FACING and side facing seats
do not require seat belts

--
Andy

SWB Series 2a ( dressed as a 3) "Bruce"
It's big, it's mean it's really, really green


 
My rear seats are forward facing fold-ups. They spend 95% of their time
folded up, including during the MOT test.

--
1990 Ninety 2.5 n/a D (Jasmine) - the off-road toy
Ex- Freelander Td4 5dr owner - the worst vehicle I have ever had!!!
New Jeep Cherokee Ltd 2.8CRD Auto - freelander replacement.


"Andy.Smalley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "GbH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> In news:[email protected],
>> Andy.Smalley <[email protected]> blithered:
>>> "90ninety" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> My Ninety is a CSW and originally had bench seats in the back. I
>>>> took the benches out as soon as I purchased the vehicle and fitted
>>>> two forward facing fold-up seats with 3-point belts. I also fitted a
>>>> cubby box in place of the front centre seat. My insurance certificate
>>>> states the number of seats as 7.
>>>> I always use the same garage for my annual MOT. He does not even
>>>> look at the rear seats/belts. He says that they do not count as
>>>> seats as far as the MOT is concerned; and the same goes for the rear
>>>> bench seats with or without lap belts. So my insurance company says
>>>> it's a 7 seater. The MOT will test it
>>>> as a 2 seater. I swear it is a 4 seater, because it has 4 seats and
>>>> 4 seatbelts!!!!!!!!! Stew.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately your tester has got it wrong section 5.1 of the MOT
>>> manual states "this inspection applies to all seat belts fitted
>>> including child seats/ restraints" However rear and side facing seats
>>> do not require seat belts
>>
>>
>> so neither rear nor side facing need testing or side facing in the rear
>> or rear or side facing?
>> Regret that sentence is too ambiguous to be any definitve use!
>>
>
>
> OK try
> Unfortunately your tester has got it wrong section 5.1 of the MOT
> manual states "this inspection applies to all seat belts fitted
> including child seats/ restraints" However rear FACING and side facing
> seats
> do not require seat belts
>
> --
> Andy
>
> SWB Series 2a ( dressed as a 3) "Bruce"
> It's big, it's mean it's really, really green
>


 
John Page wrote:

> Does anyone know if it is possible to get the registration changed for a
> 110 CSW if you take out the rear seats, My wife's license will not
> let her drive anything that seats more then 8+driver and as it's a medical
> thing it can't be changed. We really wand a defender with a 2 + 3 seat
> configuration and crew cabs are very pricey.
>
> So can we take a 110 with 12 seats, take out center front and rear bench
> and then get it classified as a 5 seater?

I had that done on mine when I bought it and the garage just declared it
with the new number of seats when they filled-in the change of owner forms
for DVLA. I now have the right number of seats on the form.

Fred

 
In news:[email protected],
EMB <[email protected]> blithered:
> GbH wrote:
>> In news:[email protected],
>> Andy.Smalley <[email protected]> blithered:
>
>>> Unfortunately your tester has got it wrong section 5.1 of the MOT
>>> manual states "this inspection applies to all seat belts fitted
>>> including child seats/ restraints" However rear and side facing
>>> seats do not require seat belts
>>
>>
>> so neither rear nor side facing need testing or side facing in the
>> rear or rear or side facing?
>> Regret that sentence is too ambiguous to be any definitve use!
>
> Rear and side facing seats do not require seatbelts. However if
> seatbelts are fitted (to a rear or side facing seat or child
> restraint) said seatbelts are subject to inspection.
>
> Clear enough now?

Think I understood first time, was just trying to point out the text was open to
(mis)interpretation, does the (second) 'facing' apply soley to 'side' or 'rear' as
well. Your first sentence specifies rear AND side facing, WTF does that mean?
Obliquely mounted?
I know I'm being obtuse? I'm famous for it, but descriptions and especially
definitions must be unambiguous to be of any use.
--
"He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt her doing it."

If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!


 
In news:[email protected],
Andy.Smalley <[email protected]> blithered:
> "GbH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> In news:[email protected],
>> Andy.Smalley <[email protected]> blithered:
>>> "90ninety" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> message news:[email protected]...
>>>> My Ninety is a CSW and originally had bench seats in the back. I
>>>> took the benches out as soon as I purchased the vehicle and fitted
>>>> two forward facing fold-up seats with 3-point belts. I also fitted
>>>> a cubby box in place of the front centre seat. My insurance
>>>> certificate states the number of seats as 7. I always use the same garage for
>>>> my annual MOT. He does not even
>>>> look at the rear seats/belts. He says that they do not count as
>>>> seats as far as the MOT is concerned; and the same goes for the
>>>> rear bench seats with or without lap belts. So my insurance company
>>>> says it's a 7 seater. The MOT will test it as a 2 seater. I swear
>>>> it is a 4 seater, because it has 4 seats and 4 seatbelts!!!!!!!!!
>>>> Stew.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately your tester has got it wrong section 5.1 of the MOT
>>> manual states "this inspection applies to all seat belts fitted
>>> including child seats/ restraints" However rear and side facing
>>> seats do not require seat belts
>>
>>
>> so neither rear nor side facing need testing or side facing in the
>> rear or rear or side facing? Regret that sentence is too ambiguous
>> to be any definitve use!
>
>
> OK try
> Unfortunately your tester has got it wrong section 5.1 of the MOT
> manual states "this inspection applies to all seat belts fitted
> including child seats/ restraints" However rear FACING and side
> facing seats do not require seat belts

That is a bit better, awfully easy to write one thing and mean another, and even
easier to say and mean somat else entirely.

--
"He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt her doing it."

If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!


 
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