Cold starting

Hi everyone. Have some trouble with my 2013 FL2 recently by where it really struggles to start in the cold. Once the engine is warm then no problems. No problems on a warm day either. Glow plugs, glow plug relay/control module, and battery have been replaced but not changed anything. Battery also has a second earth connected to the starter motor to try and help. No errorcodes register on a garage diagnostic either.Any help much appreciated. Thanks all

Were the correct glow plugs installed? There are 2 different voltages for the FL2, 11 Volts for the early pre-2011 and 5 Volts for the later post-2011 engines. Obviously putting early 11 V plugs in a later 5 V system is going to result in glow plugs that hardly warm up.
Definitely worth checking.

Nodge68 said:

Were the correct glow plugs installed? There are 2 different voltages for the FL2, 11 Volts for the early pre-2011 and 5 Volts for the later post-2011 engines. Obviously putting early 11 V plugs in a later 5 V system is going to result in glow plugs that hardly warm up.
Definitely worth checking.

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Thanks Nodge68. Yeh I got the garage to check this and they used the correct 5V plugs. It’s had a full service history and only covered 60k miles. Only issue is when it’s cold

Scaz93 said:

Thanks Nodge68. Yeh I got the garage to check this and they used the correct 5V plugs. It’s had a full service history and only covered 60k miles. Only issue is when it’s cold

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What does it actually do when trying to start it?

Nodge68 said:

What does it actually do when trying to start it?

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Initially cranks over ok but then sounds like it’s going to cut out as it is spluttering tying to start. Repeats that for a while, before it finally starts. Won’t let me upload a video so you can hear it sadly.

Do you touch the throttle pedal when starting?

You have to upload videos to YouTube, then link them to the thread.

Ahh I see, thank you. Here’s a couple of links

https://youtube.com/shorts/WVAxL_JDXYg?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/wBZKgBfJCmc?feature=share

Thanks for your help

Nodge68 said:

Do you touch the throttle pedal when starting?

You have to upload videos to YouTube, then link them to the thread.

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No don’t touch the throttle at all. Normally turn ignition on, wait, turn it off, wait, turn it on again, wait, start the engine.

There's no need to keep rebooting the ignition, it simply uses extra battery power.
Just allow the system to boot, then press the start button.
The engine will crank over until it starts, or cranking times out after about 10 seconds.
If it fails to start on the first attempt, press the start button to try again.

Nodge68 said:

There's no need to keep rebooting the ignition, it simply uses extra battery power.
Just allow the system to boot, then press the start button.
The engine will crank over until it starts, or cranking times out after about 10 seconds.
If it fails to start on the first attempt, press the start button to try again.

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Thanks, was just trying to get extra heat into the engine by starting the glow plugs twice. Don’t want to damage the starter motor as it happens multiple times each day it is cold. The videos show when temp is only 0c so much worse when colder. Thought it could be coolant sensor but no other symptoms of that being faulty.

The glow plugs aren't used for starting if the engine temperature is above 5°C, however they are used once the engine is running to clean up emissions.
Below 5°C the ECM will activate the plugs for a pre-set time based on engine temperature, however it won't necessarily display the glow plug light or delay cranking until the ECM requires it.

If all the glow plug components have been replaced and or tested as functioning, then the issue could be elsewhere.
There have been instances of fuel draining back to the tank overnight, which would also give a delayed start, as there would be insufficient rail pressure for injection to take place.

I'd be putting a diagnostic reader on first start of the day, to see what the fuel rail pressure is doing. It could well be an issue where the pressure is taking time to come up, which will definitely be responsible for the sluggish starting.

Nodge68 said:

The glow plugs aren't used for starting if the engine temperature is above 5°C, however they are used once the engine is running to clean up emissions.
Below 5°C the ECM will activate the plugs for a pre-set time based on engine temperature, however it won't necessarily display the glow plug light or delay cranking until the ECM requires it.

If all the glow plug components have been replaced and or tested as functioning, then the issue could be elsewhere.
There have been instances of fuel draining back to the tank overnight, which would also give a delayed start, as there would be insufficient rail pressure for injection to take place.

I'd be putting a diagnostic reader on first start of the day, to see what the fuel rail pressure is doing. It could well be an issue where the pressure is taking time to come up, which will definitely be responsible for the sluggish starting.

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Thanks very much for your help Nodge68. Is that something an average DIY mechanic could do (aka myself) or would I need to take it to a garage?. At 5c it normally starts ok but anything around zero or below is when I get issues. Would fuel running back make starting worse at cold temperatures? Thank you

That time of year again - cold mornings and rough starting. It struggles first thing in the morning when it is cold but only for the first start of the day. After that it is ok. When it is a warm day there is no issue. It has had new glow plugs, glow plug relay, fuel filter and battery. It sounds like it is trying to stall when turning over. It has never not started, just doesn’t sound healthy. No codes registered on diagnostic machine. Not much fuel in the line in the morning but the issue is only when starting first thing in the morning from cold

I'm wondering if you have an injector leaking down overnight. Does it start with any smoke from the exhaust?

Is that the same as fuel running back to the tank? Heard stories of that in these cars. Sometimes there is a bit of smoke, but can’t say it’s anything excessive

Scaz93 said:

Is that the same as fuel running back to the tank? Heard stories of that in these cars. Sometimes there is a bit of smoke, but can’t say it’s anything excessive

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I'm assuming it has a DPF, so if you're seeing smoke, it suggests an injector is draining into the piston overnight. This cylinder won't fire until the injector refills and starts injecting (causing the spluttering) and the fuel that collected in the piston will now be splashed about, burning slowly causing smoke.

Nodge68 said:

I'm assuming it has a DPF, so if you're seeing smoke, it suggests an injector is draining into the piston overnight. This cylinder won't fire until the injector refills and starts injecting (causing the spluttering) and the fuel that collected in the piston will now be splashed about, burning slowly causing smoke.

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Makes sense. Thanks very much for sharing your knowledge. How is it best to check this and fix? Thank you

Scaz93 said:

Makes sense. Thanks very much for sharing your knowledge. How is it best to check this and fix? Thank you

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I have a similar issue on mine at random times. Not every day, maybe a couple of times a week. Mine has a set of reconditioned injectors, so I know they're going to be garbage. I've got a replacement set of working injectors to fit at some point, which should eliminate the issue for me.
Unfortunately these injectors aren't super long lived, often starting to get issues about 100k miles.

Ahh I see. Was hoping to avoid a full new set of injectors. Hoping it could have been seals or o-rings. Would this only really happen with freezing temperatures?

Had the issue last few days when the temperature was above 5c so the glow plugs wouldn’t even be on. Will get a leak off kit and test the injectors