P38A Clutch

tomcat59alan said:

Do you mean free travel or bleed kit? Bleed kit I use is a length of suitable pipe, a milk bottle and the missus. How hard is it to remember to shout down when the pedal reaches the floor and up when the pedal is at the top of its travel? one good way to start an argument. I will check free trial later and report back

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Obviously people don't know how to make a NRV bleed pipe, can all be done single handed if you have one.

wammers said:

Obviously people don't know how to make a NRV bleed pipe, can all be done single handed if you have one.

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I bought two with nrv's to bleed the classic front calipers,sods law, when you need them again the rubber had perished. my point was they can remember an indiscretion 15 years ago but are unable to remember two words and when to say them.

tomcat59alan said:

Do you mean free travel or bleed kit? Bleed kit I use is a length of suitable pipe, a milk bottle and the missus. How hard is it to remember to shout down when the pedal reaches the floor and up when the pedal is at the top of its travel? one good way to start an argument. I will check free trial later and report back

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Free travel! Although not quite free as you can feel a bit of pressure pushing back - just don't squeeze too hard and do a DT!

I've got a one way valve on the end of my bit of pipe but usually still get a volunteer to hop in and press the pedal while I shout down and up.

tomcat59alan said:

I bought two with nrv's to bleed the classic front calipers,sods law, when you need them again the rubber had perished. my point was they can remember an indiscretion 15 years ago but are unable to remember two words and when to say them.

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After bleeding or before or during why would you sqeeze the rod back into the slave cylinder. Pushing fluid back into the master cylinder. Makes no sense to me.

wammers said:

After bleeding or before or during why would you sqeeze the rod back into the slave cylinder. Pushing fluid back into the master cylinder. Makes no sense to me.

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Eh? Why did I try in the first place? I was trying to ascertain if the clutch was returning all the way back when the pedal was released. Toward that end I was wondering what the usual amount of travel was with the pedal all the way up. Process of elimination on why my clutch went up in smoke in 22 months.

Grrrrrr said:

Eh? Why did I try in the first place? I was trying to ascertain if the clutch was returning all the way back when the pedal was released. Toward that end I was wondering what the usual amount of travel was with the pedal all the way up. Process of elimination on why my clutch went up in smoke in 22 months.

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All you need to know is that when the pedal is back the slave cylinder rod is loose with no pressure on it. If you have 1/4" of free play odds are that fingers on clutch release are not even and whilst revolving against release bearing they have rattled the leaver and pushed the slave cylinder piston back 1/4". So basically that is how distorted they are. I would say duff clutch. Soft pressure plate and fingers. Same fail as on the Disco clutch i spoke about earlier. LUK clutch that was.

wammers said:

All you need to know is that when the pedal is back the slave cylinder rod is loose with no pressure on it. If you have 1/4" of free play odds are that fingers on clutch release are not even and whilst revolving against release bearing they have rattled the leaver and pushed the slave cylinder piston back 1/4". So basically that is how distorted they are. I would say duff clutch. Soft pressure plate and fingers. Same fail as on the Disco clutch i spoke about earlier. LUK clutch that was.

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Pedal feels normal. The slave has a spring inside so it is never loose. Both myself and Range Rover DT can squeeze the push-rod back in by about 1/4" but it pushes itself back as soon as you release the pressure. Doesn't feel as if it is pushing anything other than hydraulic pressure back but might be wrong. @brianp38dse has a manual and so does @tomcat59alan so guessing they have the same. Hopefully when they've had a chance to look we'll know. Mine still goes into gear fine.

Grrrrrr said:

Pedal feels normal. The slave has a spring inside so it is never loose. Both myself and Range Rover DT can squeeze the push-rod back in by about 1/4" but it pushes itself back as soon as you release the pressure. Doesn't feel as if it is pushing anything other than hydraulic pressure back but might be wrong. @brianp38dse has a manual and so does @tomcat59alan so guessing they have the same. Hopefully when they've had a chance to look we'll know. Mine still goes into gear fine.

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When i say loose i mean it can be turned easily with little effort. Not that it is rattling about. Symptoms with Disco were gears difficult to engage with clutch depressed but slipped under load with clutch engaged.

I've still got Money/Midget gems on duff diaphragm spring in the pressure plate..

Henry_b said:

I've still got Money/Midget gems on duff diaphragm spring in the pressure plate..

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Yes just so as i have said.

wammers said:

When i say loose i mean it can be turned easily with little effort. Not that it is rattling about. Symptoms with Disco were gears difficult to engage with clutch depressed but slipped under load with clutch engaged.

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You cannot turn it easily. Not without using the pedal. Slides into gear easily too.

@Henry_b : whole assembly, pressure plate, release bearing, friction plate, DMF all replaced 22 months ago. Did the rear oil seal and spigot bearing while I was in there. The only part not replaced was the input shaft and the clutch fork itself.

Grrrrrr said:

You cannot turn it easily. Not without using the pedal. Slides into gear easily too.

@Henry_b : whole assembly, pressure plate, release bearing, friction plate, DMF all replaced 22 months ago. Did the rear oil seal and spigot bearing while I was in there. The only part not replaced was the input shaft and the clutch fork itself.

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Yep, i've seen almost new clutch kits being defective, either in the Friction Disc department or weak diaphragm springs.

Grrrrrr said:

You cannot turn it easily. Not without using the pedal. Slides into gear easily too.

@Henry_b : whole assembly, pressure plate, release bearing, friction plate, DMF all replaced 22 months ago. Did the rear oil seal and spigot bearing while I was in there. The only part not replaced was the input shaft and the clutch fork itself.

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If you use the pedal you put pressure on it. With the pedal up only pressure that should be on it is the spring in the slave cylinder pushing to into clutch arm.

wammers said:

If you use the pedal you put pressure on it. With the pedal up only pressure that should be on it is the spring in the slave cylinder pushing to into clutch arm.

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That's just how mine feels Grrrrr. What was the guarantee and did you keep the receipt?v Don't think you will get the labour but a replacement clutch?

tomcat59alan said:

That's just how mine feels Grrrrr. What was the guarantee and did you keep the receipt?v Don't think you will get the labour but a replacement clutch?

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22 months would be pushing it, I think. Like that f*cking transfer box seal from Ashcrofts that has probably been leaking 6 months but getting worse and I didn't notice until January. 6 months past is it for EU rules.

Well, guess we'll find out when I get around to pulling it all apart again.

My Tbox weeps little as you know. My clutch is okay been on for years. When clutch went limp I could feel the mechanism only. Only had to bleed as i squeezed air (or I think) by compressing cylinder by hand to see for Grrrr as comparison for same working unit. All good now, I have the gentle touch of a blacksmith handy for hammering screws in

Mine feels same awkward to explain but there is a little pressurised movement on slave. Never had a clutch problem.....yet

@wammers how do you make an NRV?
I just kept pipe under fluid (old from res) so air bleeds out but can’t go back in then pumped it through.

Grrrrrr said:

22 months would be pushing it, I think. Like that f*cking transfer box seal from Ashcrofts that has probably been leaking 6 months but getting worse and I didn't notice until January. 6 months past is it for EU rules.

Well, guess we'll find out when I get around to pulling it all apart again.

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Sure the last one I fitted was two year guarantee.

I'm planning on pulling the car apart this weekend. I'll need a new clutch whatever happens so thought I might as well get on in. Disaster! Valeo no longer make the kit or have any in stock. Eurocarparts have nothing but the AP clutch kit:

https://www.eurocarparts.com/search/641670040

Anyone have any experience of the AP Clutch kit? Here's the marketing guff

https://www.smpe.co.uk/clutches.asp

With the discount code that's £158. Compare land Rover at near enough 3 times that:

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-STC50512

Borg & Beck no longer make them or have any stock. Seems these clutches are getting rare. For the reference, Borg & Beck part number is HK6589, or was!

Grrrrrr said:

I'm planning on pulling the car apart this weekend. I'll need a new clutch whatever happens so thought I might as well get on in. Disaster! Valeo no longer make the kit or have any in stock. Eurocarparts have nothing but the AP clutch kit:

https://www.eurocarparts.com/search/641670040

Anyone have any experience of the AP Clutch kit? Here's the marketing guff

https://www.smpe.co.uk/clutches.asp

With the discount code that's £158. Compare land Rover at near enough 3 times that:

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-STC50512

Borg & Beck no longer make them or have any stock. Seems these clutches are getting rare. For the reference, Borg & Beck part number is HK6589, or was!

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Bugger it. I just cannot face having my wallet raped by Land Rover. I'm going to have a punt on the AP clutch kit. Wish me luck ...

Grrrrrr said:

Bugger it. I just cannot face having my wallet raped by Land Rover. I'm going to have a punt on the AP clutch kit. Wish me luck ...

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In the past, AP were good, no idea these days though.