Clutch slip after new spigot bush

NPG said:

If they replaced the DMF, it would probably be Valeo as well, part of the kit. A little bit of free play is usually allowed but depends on the manufacturer. Valeo states that the max allowance (i.e. travel before you start pushing against the spring) is 15° or the equivalent of 6 teeth on the starter ring. I've looked at your video again and yours seems to be within range but you may want to measure it to make sure.

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Thanks for the advice Yes mate it certainly dosnt move more than 6 teeth I'd say more 3 teeth or 4

Craigevo92 said:

I wish he was here for me to ask him mate old age got the better of him 2 years ago he definitely would of came to my rescue if he was here but he did hate land rovers rust buckets I think the phrase was he used !!

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Sorry mate, mine popped off years ago but still miss the old sod!

Stanleysteamer said:

Sorry mate, mine popped off years ago but still miss the old sod!

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Ino the feeling mate he definitely passed his knowledge to me though for wich I am gratefull especially owning a land rover I must be at least £11000 into this disco now engine is on 276000 and pulls like a train when it dosnt slip so just try to keep it going

Craigevo92 said:

Thanks for the advice Yes mate it certainly dosnt move more than 6 teeth I'd say more 3 teeth or 4

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Better news for you - if yours is a Valeo DMF, then its assy #836018. I found a Valeo document specific to this DMF and the max free play angle is actually 21.5° or 7 teeth on the starter ring. I would also measure the tilt angle and if it checks out, you should rule out the DMF. You'll find all info and instructions in the attached document.

I do love the old girl

NPG said:

Better news for you - if yours is a Valeo DMF, then its assy #836018. I found a Valeo document specific to this DMF and the max free play angle is actually 21.5° or 7 teeth on the starter ring. I would also measure the tilt angle and if it checks out, you should rule out the DMF. You'll find all info and instructions in the attached document.

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Thank you mate il go jump back under the old girl I check it over

Craigevo92 said:

Ino the feeling mate he definitely passed his knowledge to me though for wich I am gratefull especially owning a land rover I must be at least £11000 into this disco now engine is on 276000 and pulls like a train when it dosnt slip so just try to keep it going

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276000 is stellar mileage. amazing!
I was thinking about this problem overnight and saying to my self that it would be good to check the positioning of all the clutch release components, i.e. make sure the release bearing is sitting exactly where it should on the arm, the arm itself, the fulcrum point, where it contacts the rod from the slave as well as all the other stuff we have mentioned.
But at the end of the day, if you have a chipped engine, a heavy truck running on bigger tyres, the point at which all that power has to move all that weight is in fact the clutch. And you may find that is why it is slipping. I personally would have fitted a heavy duty clutch. Not being clever after the fact, just too much history with tuning engines.
Anyway, here's hoping you find it is something simple like properly bleeding the clutch slave.

Stanleysteamer said:

276000 is stellar mileage. amazing!
I was thinking about this problem overnight and saying to my self that it would be good to check the positioning of all the clutch release components, i.e. make sure the release bearing is sitting exactly where it should on the arm, the arm itself, the fulcrum point, where it contacts the rod from the slave as well as all the other stuff we have mentioned.
But at the end of the day, if you have a chipped engine, a heavy truck running on bigger tyres, the point at which all that power has to move all that weight is in fact the clutch. And you may find that is why it is slipping. I personally would have fitted a heavy duty clutch. Not being clever after the fact, just too much history with tuning engines.
Anyway, here's hoping you find it is something simple like properly bleeding the clutch slave.

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I'm just going to replace clutch tomorow after giving mine a good inspection it is covered in like a metallic oily substance of all the pieces of metal and grease that fell of the old bearing there bits of plastic and the Metallic scum in the pressure plate where I pressed the clutch when it happened I think lots of the burning plastic and metal have maybe got behind the pressure plates springs could try clean it but probs easier to replace guna give my bell housing a good clean aswell as it's all full of very fine metal at least if I replace clutch ino the problem is elsewhere

Craigevo92 said:

I'm just going to replace clutch tomorow after giving mine a good inspection it is covered in like a metallic oily substance of all the pieces of metal and grease that fell of the old bearing there bits of plastic and the Metallic scum in the pressure plate where I pressed the clutch when it happened I think lots of the burning plastic and metal have maybe got behind the pressure plates springs could try clean it but probs easier to replace guna give my bell housing a good clean aswell as it's all full of very fine metal at least if I replace clutch ino the problem is elsewhere

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RIGHT! Does look like you've found the source of the problem.
You could ask on here about heavy duty clutches.
Well done mate!
All the best

You can see the scum its everywhere

Stanleysteamer said:

RIGHT! Does look like you've found the source of the problem.
You could ask on here about heavy duty clutches.
Well done mate!
All the best

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Fingers crossed thanks for all your help il give you a update how it goes tomorow

Craigevo92 said:

You can see the scum its everywhere

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That deffo can't help! Looks like grinding paste!
Ouch!

Craigevo92 said:

This is what met me when I first opened the gearbox up after it happened

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that wasnt a worn spigot bush and judging by the clutch plate in a previous pic release bearings been forced against the clutch

jamesmartin said:

that wasnt a worn spigot bush and judging by the clutch plate in a previous pic release bearings been forced against the clutch

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Thabks for your reply The spigot Bush was winning its head off for months I just kept ignoring it only thing that made me think it was the spigot was there was a curved piece of brass off the spigot Bush in the bell housing its was as thin as a piece of paper all the rest was just brass dust around my clutch and bell housing completely gone how would the bearing be forced against clutch plate mate I'm going to replace full clutch is that going to sort it ? Cheers

Better pics of clutch plate there is a round circle around the plate like it's been scratched but I thought it was probably a piece of my bearing as been sat there and scratched it as I had to be towed nearly 2 hours with the engine running so I had brakes so it's been spinning with all kinds of metal and plastic bits for a good while

jamesmartin said:

that wasnt a worn spigot bush and judging by the clutch plate in a previous pic release bearings been forced against the clutch

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Thanks James for the Homework! You have made me look more closely at the pics. I can't see exactly what you are talking about although I noticed the metal around the centre of the clutchplate was discoloured as if by heat.
But I did notice scoring on both sides of the clutchplate.
No gold star for me this week!
Do you think this could have been caused by putting the clutchplate in back to front?!

Craigevo92 said:

Better pics of clutch plate there is a round circle around the plate like it's been scratched but I thought it was probably a piece of my bearing as been sat there and scratched it as I had to be towed nearly 2 hours with the engine running so I had brakes so it's been spinning with all kinds of metal and plastic bits for a good while

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Aha, yet again!
Sounds like the towing didn't help it any!

Stanleysteamer said:

Aha, yet again!
Sounds like the towing didn't help it any!

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Ino I was stuck in the middle of Betws-y-Coed and was getting late couldn't afford a recovery so had to be towed wasnt a nice tow home I can tell you that!

Craigevo92 said:

Thabks for your reply The spigot Bush was winning its head off for months I just kept ignoring it only thing that made me think it was the spigot was there was a curved piece of brass off the spigot Bush in the bell housing its was as thin as a piece of paper all the rest was just brass dust around my clutch and bell housing completely gone how would the bearing be forced against clutch plate mate I'm going to replace full clutch is that going to sort it ? Cheers

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spigots bush often whine thats not an issue, why it would be worked so hard it wore to dust is a something that needs looking for and your release bearing was either worn out and grease long since dried up or poor part or was held againt the clutch fingers

Stanleysteamer said:

Thanks James for the Homework! You have made me look more closely at the pics. I can't see exactly what you are talking about although I noticed the metal around the centre of the clutchplate was discoloured as if by heat.
But I did notice scoring on both sides of the clutchplate.
No gold star for me this week!
Do you think this could have been caused by putting the clutchplate in back to front?!

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no if you fit clutch plate wrong way round the boss reaches the end of the splines on the input shaft and so holds plate tight against the flywheel so you cant release the clutch just permanent drive

jamesmartin said:

no if you fit clutch plate wrong way round the boss reaches the end of the splines on the input shaft and so holds plate tight against the flywheel so you cant release the clutch just permanent drive

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Glad to have it confirmed, yet again, that a clutch cannot easily be fitted the wrong way round.
Wondering now if that is what has been happening at the garage that did (NOT) do the work on wifey's semi-auto Porsche Speedster copy. They keep swearing that the clutch material is too thick, but I know that isn't the case as the forum around the world for those with Autoshift boxes have taken theirs out and measured them leaf by leaf. They seem unable to make the (pull) clutch activate the release bearing to release it. They gave up and I had to drive it all the way home in second gear. So we paid £1500 for them not to do the job.
But then that is kit cars for you and if we hadn't been in a hurry to try and get it sorted and sold I would have made the time to empty the garage, move various static vehicles to get it in there and found a way of getting the box and engine out. But that really is fiddly.
So still got it to do!