Clutch or gearbox issue?

Hi guys,

New user and first post.

My father-in-law has a defender 90 (2.5L 1996) that has an issue, was hoping you guys could help point us in the right direction
Was driving the defender and he lost the clutch, he had a pedal but couldn't get any drive.
So you put your foot down on the pedal and select a gear then when you start to lift it make a grinding / rattle noise. Get no movement at all.

With the engine off you can cycle through and select every gear. We have tried it in high and low box. Diff locked and diff unlocked. Still can't get any movement.

We suspected the slave cylinder, so took that off and all is well, re-assembled and reverse bled the system.
Still have a clutch pedal but the problem persists.
Jacked up all four corners to see if we could get any movement in any gear. Wheels don't move at all.

Has anyone come across anything like this before?
We don't know if its gearbox related or clutch related, was hoping for some feedback so we know where to check next!

Any help would be appreciated, we don't mind doing any of the work we just need to know where to start.

Cheers

Have you tried to get drive when in |Diff lock?. I would check that first as its the easiest. If you get drive then it could be just a drive shaft.

Do either of the t-box outputs move when you engage a gear, at least then you could confirm internal or external

mikescuba said:

Have you tried to get drive when in |Diff lock?. I would check that first as its the easiest. If you get drive then it could be just a drive shaft.

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Yeh we have tried that and get nothing.
Cheers

Huddy84 said:

Do either of the t-box outputs move when you engage a gear, at least then you could confirm internal or external

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Not 100% sure on this one, will check tomorrow.
Would have though that if there was movement from them then at least the front or the rear wheels would have drive.
When we had all four off the ground we got nothing.
Will report back with what we find.

Cheers

Let me get this straight. The pedal goes up and down and feels normal? You tried selecting all gears with the engine off. Can you do the same with it running and not using the clutch, presumably causing the noise? If you can, and you're in difflock then you could have:-

A failure of diffs or half shafts in both axles at once - very unlikely.
Two broken propshafts, which you might well have noticed.
A bearing collapse in the transfer box so that teeth aren't meshing. Possible, but when mine went I could occasionally get some drive for a while.
Maybe the same in the gearbox.
Clutch disc or cover failure. Most likely if I had to guess.

What about the gear selectors, or yoke shaft. Could they have somehow worked loose?

clutch center ripped out is quite likely,but there are numerous other causes in g/box and t/box ,box will have to come out to see

jamesmartin said:

clutch center ripped out is quite likely

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what jamesmartin said. That's how my last one failed. Very nice pedal travel but no gear selection. Pulled the engine out and found carnage.

Splines gone in the main gbox output shaft? - classic LT77 problem, but maybe this is to new to be a LT77.

Morning,

Had a look at the transfer box over the weekend, looks to be fine.

Teeth are all in good condition etc. Drained the oil and there were no metal chunks or metal on the sump plug.

Can pretty much rule this out. Started the engine and tried to get drive, as you come up the clutch and you hear the grinding/rattle, the gears in the transfer box rotated slightly then stopped. They all moved at once, so I reckon it must be the clutch or gearbox?

What do you guys think?

Also, how do you fill the transfer box with oil?

Cheers

zeaphod said:

Splines gone in the main gbox output shaft? - classic LT77 problem, but maybe this is to new to be a LT77.

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Checked the transfer box over the weekend, took the inspection hatch off. It is getting drive, but not much.
Cheers

reiny said:

what jamesmartin said. That's how my last one failed. Very nice pedal travel but no gear selection. Pulled the engine out and found carnage.

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I am starting to think its the clutch. Never done one on a defender though, easy enough job?
Or would you send it in to be done?

Cheers

It's not difficult at all. Just time consuming and reasonably heavy. I personally prefer the engine-out method for the plain and simple reason that my garage is about 12 feet wide and hence not wide enough to manoevre an engine crane with a gearbox hanging off it from the sides. I usually get the whole job done in one day (approx 8 - 9 hours), without rushing the job. An extra pair of hands when removing and re-fitting the engine is of great help. There's no rocket science to it.

As above engine out is easier, depends on if you've got access to a hoist though and can be bothered. Once it's in a garage though costs can easily spiral

Agreed engine out, the gearboxes have more connected to them...

The early R380 gearboxes fitted to the 300Tdi did not have the transfer box input shaft drilled to let oil through.
This caused wear in the splines on the gearbox until the mainshaft just spins in the transfer box.
If this is the case then the gear box shaft needs replacing(Lay shaft or mainshaft(Can't remember which one)) and so does the transfer box input with a new cross drilled one. Lets hope it is the clutch hey??

currymunster said:

The early R380 gearboxes fitted to the 300Tdi did not have the transfer box input shaft drilled to let oil through.
This caused wear in the splines on the gearbox until the mainshaft just spins in the transfer box.
If this is the case then the gear box shaft needs replacing(Lay shaft or mainshaft(Can't remember which one)) and so does the transfer box input with a new cross drilled one. Lets hope it is the clutch hey??

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Op could check that by taking the transfer PTO cover off and having a look

Sounds like spline failure of the gearbox output shaft to me.

Finally got round to doing this today, been busy with work commitments.

So got the gearbox and transfer box dropped down, had a look in the clutch. Looks to be ok, which is worrying. There's was some oil in there that shouldn't have been. Not much though. Clutch seems ok, but will be replaced anyway. Gearbox input shaft is fine. Splines are really good. The only thing that I could find in the clutch housing was the slipper pads on the clutch arm were both completely locked tight on one position. Could this cause the problems of loosing drive?
Also there was a crack on the clutch arm, hadn't punched through but couldn't have been far off!

Should I be thinking about splitting the gearbox and transfer box to check the shafts there? Is there an easy was of checking this without splitting them?

Cheers guys!