Charging a battery whilst still on the vehicle.

Disco1BFG said:

How ridiculous - what's next, asking for permission to drive the damn thing !??!?!??!

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Probably only if it recognises your iris or something!

Turboman said:

Probably only if it recognises your iris or something!

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Exactly! Technology is great, BUT, and its a BIG but, the sheer quantity of it in "cars" is just getting out of hand IMHO.
We're all doooomed I tell ya !!!!!!!!

Disco1BFG said:

Exactly! Technology is great, BUT, and its a BIG but, the sheer quantity of it in "cars" is just getting out of hand IMHO.
We're all doooomed I tell ya !!!!!!!!

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Hate it myself. Big Brother is everywhere and you pay for it.

Hate everything to do wth microchips except lz really.

Disco1BFG said:

How ridiculous - what's next, asking for permission to drive the damn thing !??!?!??!

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Yep I agree 100 percent, but and theres always a but the cars now run so much tech they have to charge the battery fully 100 percent to keep the cars systems happy, my D3 charges at 14.9 to 15.1 volts pretty much all the time thats got a 150 amp alt, wifes car has a 180 amp alt, thats kin enormous amounts of power.
If you sniff around any of the modern car forums you will see that battery health is an issue across all makes and even the slightest bit of weakness can cause all sorts of running issues.
Sadly as times move on and all the old bangers get scrapped this will become the norm for us diyers.
Ive also noticed batteries on newer cars are huge compared to 20 years ago.

One of the things that makes me chuckle is my FILs nissan leaf all singing all electric car still has a conventional battery, its job? to fire all the systems up to allow the car to drive and theres even a bit in the handbook on how to jump start the std battery, I mean the thing has 1/4 of a ton of batteries on board and it might need a jump start?

The internet of knowledge is fantastic, and, IMHO, should be encouraged - the internet of things is an agent of social control, and, sadly, not in a good way and we're keeping away from it for as long as physically possible.

lynall said:

Yep I agree 100 percent, but and theres always a but the cars now run so much tech they have to charge the battery fully 100 percent to keep the cars systems happy, my D3 charges at 14.9 to 15.1 volts pretty much all the time thats got a 150 amp alt, wifes car has a 180 amp alt, thats kin enormous amounts of power.
If you sniff around any of the modern car forums you will see that battery health is an issue across all makes and even the slightest bit of weakness can cause all sorts of running issues.
Sadly as times move on and all the old bangers get scrapped this will become the norm for us diyers.
Ive also noticed batteries on newer cars are huge compared to 20 years ago.

One of the things that makes me chuckle is my FILs nissan leaf all singing all electric car still has a conventional battery, its job? to fire all the systems up to allow the car to drive and theres even a bit in the handbook on how to jump start the std battery, I mean the thing has 1/4 of a ton of batteries on board and it might need a jump start?

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OMG! a 2.7KW alternator, on a "car" !!!! more than double my D1 ! (which, if I have have anything to do with it, is the last vehicle I'll own ).

Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm not likely to have a nosy at any of the modern car forums, the youngest vehicle we have is my 97 D1 (!), and we had our fill of modern sh*t with a six year old N*vara which was gonna cost 14K to get through its MOT.

We actually looked at a Leaf for SWMBO's commute - its just about in range, but the economics just didn't stack up.... plus, they are madly complex, and as you say, if it might need a jump start to get the electrical systems "up", on an electric car - perhaps its should have a bit more redundancy built in.... or a mahoosive amount of complexity taken out

boguing said:

There's quite a lot of bolleaux talked about how modern cars shouldn't be jump-started, but I won't go into that other than to say that you should read your manual, and if it says it's OK then follow its guidance on how to do it.

I mention that because when you do, you're connecting up to 100A and more than 12V more or less unregulated - and that does no harm to the car. It's the same as if you connected your 12V mobile 'phone charger directly across the battery (it'll work quite happily) - an electrical device will only take the Amps that it needs. Different story with Volts.

Where it isn't so good is that a modern regulated charger does clever things by playing with Volts to get your battery charging nicely, but then if you've let your battery get that flat you've already seriously shortened its life.

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I think the jump-starting problem is with modern regulated alternators - once the dead car is started, and the two are still connected, the good car's alternator is being driven at full whack to charge the dead car's battery via the jump cables. If you then disconnect the leads, the good car's alternator suddenly loses a lot of load and, in the instant it takes to down-regulate the output, can deliver a nasty voltage spike to everything electrical.

Based on this, best practice would be to shut off the good car before disconnecting jump leads.

Disco1BFG said:

OMG! a 2.7KW alternator, on a "car" !!!! more than double my D1 ! (which, if I have have anything to do with it, is the last vehicle I'll own ).

Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm not likely to have a nosy at any of the modern car forums, the youngest vehicle we have is my 97 D1 (!), and we had our fill of modern sh*t with a six year old N*vara which was gonna cost 14K to get through its MOT.

We actually looked at a Leaf for SWMBO's commute - its just about in range, but the economics just didn't stack up.... plus, they are madly complex, and as you say, if it might need a jump start to get the electrical systems "up", on an electric car - perhaps its should have a bit more redundancy built in.... or a mahoosive amount of complexity taken out

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Fil took me for a spin in the Leaf and whilst it wasnt my cup of teat it was a tool doing a good job, obviously very quiet, quite torquey.
Apparently two sizes of battery the bigger unit is supposedly good for 90/100miles.
Guy at work had the older Leaf and he lived 30 miles from work and reckoned some days he just made it home! hes now got one with the bigger battery and says he now gets home with plenty of range to spare.
Fil also says using any of the accessories ie heater/a-con knocks the range down quite a bit.
We worked out 2 quid to fully charge it from totally flat and even if the range is only 60 miles thats a cheap car to run.

Tbh now I only live 5 miles from work its the ideal car for me as apart from the monthly (you would have to be mad to buy one outright) pcp its wouldnt cost a penny, but A its a nissan and B its got to be dull to live with and C its just plain fugly.

lynall said:

but A its a nissan and B its got to be dull to live with and C its just plain fugly.

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Correct on all counts !!!!!!!!!!

The concerns over charging the battery with external charger when the battery is connected to the car is down to the type of charge. If it pushes the battery volts up and leaves it there steady it's OK. If it pulse charges (gives a betterer charge) this means the volts is pulsed up/down constantly. Some chargers only do this when the battery is charged to keep it topped up. It's the pulsing which electronics doesn't like. There are a small % of occasions when one of the computers fails when pulse charging, which is why peeps try to avoid it. Charger manufacturers know this which is why they warn about it so they don't get the blame. Same with jump starting. I've known FL1's to have a failed engine computer on the rare occasion when jumping another vehicle. The sudden spike in voltage up/down can upset it.

Regarding battery size... New cars have heated seats, electric pre heat elements to get warm air when the car is cold, heated steering wheels... Hence a bigger battery to cover all this.

I would love a heated steering wheel