changing the starter motor - what did I do wrong?

Hi all,
just changed the faulty starter motor on a 1.8 k-series engine.
But what did I do wrong?

The new starter is working, but apparently not connected to the engine. It seems the cogwheel of the starter does not reach the counterpart in the engine. You can hear and feel the starter turning.



I think when starting the starter's cogwheel should move into the green area to reach the engine's cogwheel (see pic), am I right?
Well, apparently it doesn't ...
Did I do something wrong or could the new starter be faulty also?

Thank you for sharing your ideas!
Rob

sounds as if it is faulty,
the solenoid should as the key is turned slowly turn the motor. When solenoid hits end it applies full current and the engaged starter spins engine.

remove starter and in vice use jump leads.
earth vice and live to main terminal and touch tag
should throw out and spin nicely.

oh and welcome to the forum

Your assumption is correct, this type of starter motor is known as pre-engage in that the drive gear should be pushed onto the starter ring by the solenoid before a pair of contacts operated by the full travel of the soleniod put power on the motor.
One variation between starters is the distance from the mounting face and the engaged postion of the gear (your green box).
The engaging fork may have a heavy spring on it to allow the gear to partially engage but still drive the motor.

Have you connected the solenoid cable

fishingfitter said:

Have you connected the solenoid cable

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IIrc when removing the old starter I just removed two cables from the starter/solenoid unit - power and earth. The solenoid is connected to the starter with a copper lead which cannot be removed from the starter.

But will check again tomorrow.

Thanks to all for your thoughts!

Rob

earth's through body. large cable battery permanent live.

small wire ignition live to solenoid

fanatic said:

earth's through body. large cable battery permanent live.

small wire ignition live to solenoid

Click to expand...

just checked the cables. In fact there's no power on the small lead - as you said that powers the solenoid.

Leads to the next question - why??
Cable and connector look fine (and worked in the past, that was not the reason for changing the starter).
Is it fused anywhere? I assume it's controlled with a relay.
Seems to go to the area near the jack bracket with a number of connectors there (and a relay ...).

What to check next... ?

Thank you all!
Rob

bertl said:

just checked the cables. In fact there's no power on the small lead - as you said that powers the solenoid.

Leads to the next question - why??
Cable and connector look fine (and worked in the past, that was not the reason for changing the starter).
Is it fused anywhere? I assume it's controlled with a relay.
Seems to go to the area near the jack bracket with a number of connectors there (and a relay ...).

What to check next... ?

Thank you all!
Rob

Click to expand...

The small wire becomes live when you turn the ignition switch to the crank position to energise the solenoid.

Chaser said:

The small wire becomes live when you turn the ignition switch to the crank position to energise the solenoid.

Click to expand...

it doesn't. it's not powered when I turn the ignition switch.

bertl said:

it doesn't. it's not powered when I turn the ignition switch.

Click to expand...

Is the immobiliser led extinguishing when you go to start it? If it is you have a breakdown in the solenoid cable. If no then your immobiliser is active.

ratty said:

Is the immobiliser led extinguishing when you go to start it? If it is you have a breakdown in the solenoid cable. If no then your immobiliser is active.

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the imobilizer light switches off when starting - and the starter itself turns but just the solenoid does not push the pinion towards its counterpart in the engine.

That sounds like a mechanical issue with the starter. The energised solenoid should cause the pinion to engage fractionally before the internal contacts close to allow the starter to turn.

Chaser said:

That sounds like a mechanical issue with the starter. The energised solenoid should cause the pinion to engage fractionally before the internal contacts close to allow the starter to turn.

Click to expand...

forget my last post - there IS power on the soleniod lead when using the ignition switch.

And I'm even more confused - why is the soleniod not working? It is not blocked and can be moved manually easily.

If I understand right the starter should not turn without the pinion moved from the soleniod?

??????

bertl said:

forget my last post - there IS power on the soleniod lead when using the ignition switch.

And I'm even more confused - why is the soleniod not working? It is not blocked and can be moved manually easily.

If I understand right the starter should not turn without the pinion moved from the soleniod?

??????

Click to expand...

Your right, that's the whole point of a pre engaged starter.

The magnetic field generated when you energise the solenoid pulls a plunger which moves a pivoting fork to engage the pinion and at the same time the same plunger closes the main motor contacts.

Your going to have to remove the starter to investigate if the fork and its pivot are intact. it sounds like it has become disconnected in some way from the solenoid plunger....

The over pull spring which allows the motor to start when the gear is not fully engaged means that the soleniod armature is not solidly fixed to the rocking lever that pushes the gear out. This can separate and sounds like your problem.