Capstan winch

P

puffernutter

Guest

• Mar 27, 2006

• #1

Having had great success in replacing the clutch master cylinder in my
110 CSW on Friday evening (thanks for the parts Richard) I thought I'd
go for an encore an install the capstan winch that had been sitting on
the drive for the last 6 months!

The winch is mechanical and driven via a dog on the crankshaft pulley.

That again went (relatively!) smoothly and leaves me with only one
question. Should I fit a hand throttle on the winch or will tickover
be sufficient for winching operations?

Cheers

Peter
(Never having winched in his life!)

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Mar 27, 2006

• #2

In message <[email protected]>
"puffernutter" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Having had great success in replacing the clutch master cylinder in my
> 110 CSW on Friday evening (thanks for the parts Richard) I thought I'd
> go for an encore an install the capstan winch that had been sitting on
> the drive for the last 6 months!
>
> The winch is mechanical and driven via a dog on the crankshaft pulley.
>
> That again went (relatively!) smoothly and leaves me with only one
> question. Should I fit a hand throttle on the winch or will tickover
> be sufficient for winching operations?
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
> (Never having winched in his life!)
>

One of the disadvantages (though it has many advantages) of the
capstan winch is that it is really a two-man operation, certainly
for self-recovery (someone has to drive while someone else makes
sure rope spooling off the capstan doesn't get caught up in
something). If you are static and winching something else to you
then you could do it yourself with a hand throttle, but as you'd
be out of the vehicle coiling the rope then an "emergency stop"
could be tricky - a capstan winch with a few revs behind it takes
an *awful* lot of stopping.

Just my 2p's worth.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

 

A

Alex

Guest

• Mar 27, 2006

• #3

On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:38:02 +0100, beamendsltd
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In message <[email protected]>
> "puffernutter" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Having had great success in replacing the clutch master cylinder in my
>> 110 CSW on Friday evening (thanks for the parts Richard) I thought I'd
>> go for an encore an install the capstan winch that had been sitting on
>> the drive for the last 6 months!
>>
>> The winch is mechanical and driven via a dog on the crankshaft pulley.
>>
>> That again went (relatively!) smoothly and leaves me with only one
>> question. Should I fit a hand throttle on the winch or will tickover
>> be sufficient for winching operations?
>>
>
>One of the disadvantages (though it has many advantages) of the
>capstan winch is that it is really a two-man operation, certainly
>for self-recovery (someone has to drive while someone else makes
>sure rope spooling off the capstan doesn't get caught up in
>something). If you are static and winching something else to you
>then you could do it yourself with a hand throttle, but as you'd
>be out of the vehicle coiling the rope then an "emergency stop"
>could be tricky - a capstan winch with a few revs behind it takes
>an *awful* lot of stopping.
>

I'm a firm believer in having an emergency cut-off for *any* winch
fitted to a vehicle, and this should be fitted in a prominent place,
ie right next to the winch. It only takes a second to get serious
injuries from winching operations that go wrong.

If you're considering using a capstan winch for solo winching
operations like Richard says, then you shouldn't even consider not
having an emergency stop on the engine.

Alex

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Mar 27, 2006

• #4

On or around Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:51:31 +0100, Alex
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:38:02 +0100, beamendsltd
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>In message <[email protected]>
>> "puffernutter" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Having had great success in replacing the clutch master cylinder in my
>>> 110 CSW on Friday evening (thanks for the parts Richard) I thought I'd
>>> go for an encore an install the capstan winch that had been sitting on
>>> the drive for the last 6 months!
>>>
>>> The winch is mechanical and driven via a dog on the crankshaft pulley.
>>>
>>> That again went (relatively!) smoothly and leaves me with only one
>>> question. Should I fit a hand throttle on the winch or will tickover
>>> be sufficient for winching operations?
>>>
>>
>>One of the disadvantages (though it has many advantages) of the
>>capstan winch is that it is really a two-man operation, certainly
>>for self-recovery (someone has to drive while someone else makes
>>sure rope spooling off the capstan doesn't get caught up in
>>something). If you are static and winching something else to you
>>then you could do it yourself with a hand throttle, but as you'd
>>be out of the vehicle coiling the rope then an "emergency stop"
>>could be tricky - a capstan winch with a few revs behind it takes
>>an *awful* lot of stopping.
>>
>
>I'm a firm believer in having an emergency cut-off for *any* winch
>fitted to a vehicle, and this should be fitted in a prominent place,
>ie right next to the winch. It only takes a second to get serious
>injuries from winching operations that go wrong.
>
>If you're considering using a capstan winch for solo winching
>operations like Richard says, then you shouldn't even consider not
>having an emergency stop on the engine.

Mind, unless you get it seriously wrong then I thought that you stopped it
winching by letting the end in your hand go slack so that the drum stops
gripping the rope.

I think it was common to fit a hand throttle and in some cases a governor
(wonder what the chance of finding that little gem intact now is?) when
fitting an engine driven winch.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Festina Lente" (Hasten slowly) Suetonius (c.70-c.140) Augustus, 25

 

O

Oily

Guest

• Mar 27, 2006

• #5

"puffernutter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Having had great success in replacing the clutch master cylinder in my
> 110 CSW on Friday evening (thanks for the parts Richard) I thought I'd
> go for an encore an install the capstan winch that had been sitting on
> the drive for the last 6 months!
>
> The winch is mechanical and driven via a dog on the crankshaft pulley.
>
> That again went (relatively!) smoothly and leaves me with only one
> question. Should I fit a hand throttle on the winch or will tickover
> be sufficient for winching operations?
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
> (Never having winched in his life!)
>

You will definitely not need anything faster than tickover with a capstan
winch and if you've never used a winch before do *not* use it on your own
until you get someone who can use it to demonstrate how. Another thing it's
important to use the correct sort of rope, on no account use anything like
nylon climbing ropes etc. Hemp rope is ok but be very careful

Martin

 

J

JD

Guest

• Mar 27, 2006

• #6

puffernutter wrote:

> Having had great success in replacing the clutch master cylinder in my
> 110 CSW on Friday evening (thanks for the parts Richard) I thought I'd
> go for an encore an install the capstan winch that had been sitting on
> the drive for the last 6 months!
>
> The winch is mechanical and driven via a dog on the crankshaft pulley.
>
> That again went (relatively!) smoothly and leaves me with only one
> question. Should I fit a hand throttle on the winch or will tickover
> be sufficient for winching operations?
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
> (Never having winched in his life!)

A hand throttle is necessary for using a capstan winch. It is easy to stall
the engine unless it is set to a fast idle, although it is probably not as
bad with modern engines that idle around 1000rpm compared to the older
engines that idle at about 500rpm. Even if there is a second person
driving, using the foot throttle is not a good idea as it is too hard to
keep a constant rpm.

The rope used is fairly critical and synthetic rope of any kind is not a
good idea (If slipped on the drum it will melt and break, which can be a
serious safety hazard). Hemp is preferred, but other natural fibres can be
used. Although not recommended I have successfully used wire rope, but if
used much spikes will develop.

The emergency stop is to stop pulling on the end of the rope.
JD

The

 

K

Karen Gallagher

Guest

• Mar 27, 2006

• #7

Austin Shackles wrote:
> On or around Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:51:31 +0100, Alex
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>> On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:38:02 +0100, beamendsltd
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <[email protected]>
>>> "puffernutter" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Having had great success in replacing the clutch master cylinder
>>>> in my 110 CSW on Friday evening (thanks for the parts Richard) I
>>>> thought I'd go for an encore an install the capstan winch that had
>>>> been sitting on the drive for the last 6 months!
>>>>
>>>> The winch is mechanical and driven via a dog on the crankshaft
>>>> pulley.
>>>>
>>>> That again went (relatively!) smoothly and leaves me with only one
>>>> question. Should I fit a hand throttle on the winch or will
>>>> tickover be sufficient for winching operations?
>>>>
>>>
>>> One of the disadvantages (though it has many advantages) of the
>>> capstan winch is that it is really a two-man operation, certainly
>>> for self-recovery (someone has to drive while someone else makes
>>> sure rope spooling off the capstan doesn't get caught up in
>>> something). If you are static and winching something else to you
>>> then you could do it yourself with a hand throttle, but as you'd
>>> be out of the vehicle coiling the rope then an "emergency stop"
>>> could be tricky - a capstan winch with a few revs behind it takes
>>> an *awful* lot of stopping.
>>>
>>
>> I'm a firm believer in having an emergency cut-off for *any* winch
>> fitted to a vehicle, and this should be fitted in a prominent place,
>> ie right next to the winch. It only takes a second to get serious
>> injuries from winching operations that go wrong.
>>
>> If you're considering using a capstan winch for solo winching
>> operations like Richard says, then you shouldn't even consider not
>> having an emergency stop on the engine.
>
> Mind, unless you get it seriously wrong then I thought that you
> stopped it winching by letting the end in your hand go slack so that
> the drum stops gripping the rope.
>
> I think it was common to fit a hand throttle and in some cases a
> governor (wonder what the chance of finding that little gem intact
> now is?) when fitting an engine driven winch.

I use a hand throttle on a home made T handle on the radiator grill, my
friction device to make it stay in any one place is an old valve spring.

As others have said, an emergency stop is absolutely essential - contrary to
what some have said, letting go the rope does NOT always stop the process,
as the rope can bind - also, sometimes you want to stop while holding the
load in place.

Also, always, always, wear gloves when using a capstan winch. First time the
rope rips through your fingers you will know why

As to rope, speak to your local supplier (chandlers are best), show them the
capstan and let them chose the rope for you. Polypropylene is a high
friction rope but wears easily and is very poor (it melts) when heated, for
example.

Karen
--
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
- Slartibartfast

 

N

Natalie Drest

Guest

• Mar 28, 2006

• #8

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:51:31 +0100,

> Mind, unless you get it seriously wrong then I thought that you stopped it
> winching by letting the end in your hand go slack so that the drum stops
> gripping the rope.
>

Exactly so.
No tension, no winching.

What rope do you plan on using with it?



--
"fame is proof that people are gullible"- Ralph Waldo Emerson

 

K

Karen Gallagher

Guest

• Mar 28, 2006

• #9

Natalie Drest wrote:
> "Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On or around Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:51:31 +0100,
>
>> Mind, unless you get it seriously wrong then I thought that you
>> stopped it winching by letting the end in your hand go slack so that
>> the drum stops gripping the rope.
>>
>
> Exactly so.
> No tension, no winching.
>
> What rope do you plan on using with it?

Sadly, not always - especially if you take 2.5 turns on the bollard as some
recommend, you may well end up with a near clove hitch on the bollard if the
rope jumps. Better to take a mere 1.5 turns and pull harder yourself - this
makes it quite hard work, but the safety aspect is increased enormously.
Rope diameter also is critical in this aspect.

Karen

--
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
- Slartibartfast

 

G

gordon

Guest

• Mar 28, 2006

• #10

What is also important is that you have the right shear pins.
It is also important that you read a good manual or get good
instruction on how to deal with all the rope you pull through, i.e. do
NOT get it looped round your arms/legs. Poor installation + poor
technique is a recipe for serious body damge (yours, not the Landy).

I find my Series 1 needs a tad over tickover, so I do use a hand
throttle, and an industrial style emergency stop button right at the
spot on the wing where I would hit it if it all goes wrong.

Gordon

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Mar 28, 2006

• #11

On or around Tue, 28 Mar 2006 06:52:09 +1100, JD <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:
>
>A hand throttle is necessary for using a capstan winch. It is easy to stall
>the engine unless it is set to a fast idle, although it is probably not as
>bad with modern engines that idle around 1000rpm compared to the older
>engines that idle at about 500rpm. Even if there is a second person
>driving, using the foot throttle is not a good idea as it is too hard to
>keep a constant rpm.

This is, I reckon, why they fitted (in theory) a governor. Diesel engines
already have a governor, of course, in the pump.

>The rope used is fairly critical and synthetic rope of any kind is not a
>good idea (If slipped on the drum it will melt and break, which can be a
>serious safety hazard). Hemp is preferred, but other natural fibres can be
>used. Although not recommended I have successfully used wire rope, but if
>used much spikes will develop.

I'd definitely want some serious leather gauntlets if doing it with a wire
rope.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The great masses of the people ... will more easily fall victims to
a great lie than to a small one" Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
from Mein Kampf, Ch 10

 

P

puffernutter

Guest

• Mar 28, 2006

• #12

Austin Shackles wrote:
> On or around Tue, 28 Mar 2006 06:52:09 +1100, JD <[email protected]>
> enlightened us thusly:
> >
> >A hand throttle is necessary for using a capstan winch. It is easy to stall
> >the engine unless it is set to a fast idle, although it is probably not as
> >bad with modern engines that idle around 1000rpm compared to the older
> >engines that idle at about 500rpm. Even if there is a second person
> >driving, using the foot throttle is not a good idea as it is too hard to
> >keep a constant rpm.
>
> This is, I reckon, why they fitted (in theory) a governor. Diesel engines
> already have a governor, of course, in the pump.
>
> >The rope used is fairly critical and synthetic rope of any kind is not a
> >good idea (If slipped on the drum it will melt and break, which can be a
> >serious safety hazard). Hemp is preferred, but other natural fibres can be
> >used. Although not recommended I have successfully used wire rope, but if
> >used much spikes will develop.
>
> I'd definitely want some serious leather gauntlets if doing it with a wire
> rope.
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
> "The great masses of the people ... will more easily fall victims to
> a great lie than to a small one" Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
> from Mein Kampf, Ch 10

Thank you for all the advice.

I purchased a rope a while ago from eBay (where else!) natural fibre
and recommended for capstan winches. I don't have the details to hand
and the company IT has blocked access to eBay so I can't find out at
the moment.

I will fit a hand throttle and an emergency stop. I assume for the
emergency stop I'll just wire that in series with the diesel stop valve
normally controlled through the ignition switch?

I'll also have to find as few objects lying around to winch, or start
off with the 110 on level ground just to get some practice in before I
have to use it for real!

I have no immediate intention of using it, it just seemed a useful
thing to fit and it came at the right price.

Whilst the 110 is not a "shiny" it is my (wifes) daily drive, so I need
to keep it roadworthy! I may start looking for a 90 at some point. I
borrowed one from Allisport whilst they fitted my intercooler and
whilst I stayed on tarmac it was nippy and fun to drive.

Cheers

Peter

 

O

Oily

Guest

• Mar 28, 2006

• #13

"puffernutter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Austin Shackles wrote:
> > On or around Tue, 28 Mar 2006 06:52:09 +1100, JD
<[email protected]>
> > enlightened us thusly:
> > >
> > >A hand throttle is necessary for using a capstan winch. It is easy to
stall
> > >the engine unless it is set to a fast idle, although it is probably not
as
> > >bad with modern engines that idle around 1000rpm compared to the older
> > >engines that idle at about 500rpm. Even if there is a second person
> > >driving, using the foot throttle is not a good idea as it is too hard
to
> > >keep a constant rpm.
> >
> > This is, I reckon, why they fitted (in theory) a governor. Diesel
engines
> > already have a governor, of course, in the pump.
> >
> > >The rope used is fairly critical and synthetic rope of any kind is not
a
> > >good idea (If slipped on the drum it will melt and break, which can be
a
> > >serious safety hazard). Hemp is preferred, but other natural fibres can
be
> > >used. Although not recommended I have successfully used wire rope, but
if
> > >used much spikes will develop.
> >
> > I'd definitely want some serious leather gauntlets if doing it with a
wire
> > rope.

>
> Thank you for all the advice.
>
> I purchased a rope a while ago from eBay (where else!) natural fibre
> and recommended for capstan winches. I don't have the details to hand
> and the company IT has blocked access to eBay so I can't find out at
> the moment.
>
> I will fit a hand throttle and an emergency stop. I assume for the
> emergency stop I'll just wire that in series with the diesel stop valve
> normally controlled through the ignition switch?
>
> I'll also have to find as few objects lying around to winch, or start
> off with the 110 on level ground just to get some practice in before I
> have to use it for real!
>
> I have no immediate intention of using it, it just seemed a useful
> thing to fit and it came at the right price.
>
> Whilst the 110 is not a "shiny" it is my (wifes) daily drive, so I need
> to keep it roadworthy! I may start looking for a 90 at some point. I
> borrowed one from Allisport whilst they fitted my intercooler and
> whilst I stayed on tarmac it was nippy and fun to drive.
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
>

Only thing I found a capstan winch really useful for was winching such
as a small boat up a banking out of the water, especially as it was sea
water, saves dipping your chassis in salt water.
Didn't keep it for long but changed it for a Warn 8274 which has done
anything I've asked of it for quite a few years now with no trouble.

Martin.

 

N

Natalie Drest

Guest

• Mar 28, 2006

• #14

"Karen Gallagher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Natalie Drest wrote:
>> "Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On or around Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:51:31 +0100,
>>
>>> Mind, unless you get it seriously wrong then I thought that you
>>> stopped it winching by letting the end in your hand go slack so that
>>> the drum stops gripping the rope.
>>>
>>
>> Exactly so.
>> No tension, no winching.
>>
>> What rope do you plan on using with it?
>
> Sadly, not always - especially if you take 2.5 turns on the bollard as
> some recommend, you may well end up with a near clove hitch on the bollard
> if the rope jumps. Better to take a mere 1.5 turns and pull harder
> yourself - this makes it quite hard work, but the safety aspect is
> increased enormously. Rope diameter also is critical in this aspect.
>
> Karen
>
> --
> "I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
> - Slartibartfast
Good point. (and nice sig too).

I raised the question of rope type hoping that someone would comment on the
merits of hempen fibre vs. nylon. I had good success with 11mm. kernmantle
nylon semi-static rope. Coils up nicely too. Some have raised the potential
of melting should friction get over 225 C. or thereabouts- thoiugh I never
had even a suggestion of a problem with that. I did have a problem with the
lugs jumping though...

 

P

puffernutter

Guest

• Mar 28, 2006

• #15

Natalie Drest wrote:
> "Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>On or around Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:51:31 +0100,
>
>
>>Mind, unless you get it seriously wrong then I thought that you stopped it
>>winching by letting the end in your hand go slack so that the drum stops
>>gripping the rope.
>>
>
>
> Exactly so.
> No tension, no winching.
>
> What rope do you plan on using with it?
>
>
>
I can finally answer this question - a 12m length of 32mm natural manila
rope.

On a related point (but out of sequence with the thread!) - to get
advice on how to use it there is a group of 4x4 drivers who I guess do
"tours" over Salisbury Plan (a number of 110s and 90s a rangie bob tail
etc.) I occasionally see them on a Sunday morning when we take our
spaniels up there for their walk.

Are any of you on this list? (I have the blue/white 110 with roofrack
and three spaniels - not on the roof rack

Cheers

Peter

 

A

AJH

Guest

• Mar 28, 2006

• #16

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:42:16 +1100, "Natalie Drest"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I raised the question of rope type hoping that someone would comment on the
>merits of hempen fibre vs. nylon. I had good success with 11mm. kernmantle
>nylon semi-static rope. Coils up nicely too. Some have raised the potential
>of melting should friction get over 225 C. or thereabouts- thoiugh I never
>had even a suggestion of a problem with that. I did have a problem with the
>lugs jumping though...

I'd forget hemp, get it wet and it rots, have a look at what the
yachts use with their capstans, I think terylene is favourite, nylon
stores too much energy and polyprop melts.

I agree the emergency stop in case a lay gets jammed under another.

AJH
>

 

J

JD

Guest

• Mar 28, 2006

• #17

AJH wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:42:16 +1100, "Natalie Drest"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I raised the question of rope type hoping that someone would comment on
>>the merits of hempen fibre vs. nylon. I had good success with 11mm.
>>kernmantle nylon semi-static rope. Coils up nicely too. Some have raised
>>the potential of melting should friction get over 225 C. or thereabouts-
>>thoiugh I never had even a suggestion of a problem with that. I did have a
>>problem with the lugs jumping though...
>
> I'd forget hemp, get it wet and it rots, have a look at what the
> yachts use with their capstans, I think terylene is favourite, nylon
> stores too much energy and polyprop melts.
>
> I agree the emergency stop in case a lay gets jammed under another.
>
> AJH
>>

Hemp will rot as you say - but note that yachts do not use power driven
winches, so the potential for melting is greater on the capstan winch (you
are right - yacht winches would normally use terylene). Another problem is
that the synthetic ropes are a lot slipperier than natural fibres, and
while yacht winches are designed for this, capstan winches are not, so that
slipping under load is more likely. But if you do use a synthetic rope,
terylene is probably the pick. Mind, it is a lot more expensive than hemp,
even if more readily available.
JD

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Mar 29, 2006

• #18

In message <[email protected]>
puffernutter <[email protected]> wrote:

> Natalie Drest wrote:
> > "Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>On or around Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:51:31 +0100,
> >
> >
> >>Mind, unless you get it seriously wrong then I thought that you stopped it
> >>winching by letting the end in your hand go slack so that the drum stops
> >>gripping the rope.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Exactly so.
> > No tension, no winching.
> >
> > What rope do you plan on using with it?
> >
> >
> >
> I can finally answer this question - a 12m length of 32mm natural manila
> rope.
>
> On a related point (but out of sequence with the thread!) - to get
> advice on how to use it there is a group of 4x4 drivers who I guess do
> "tours" over Salisbury Plan (a number of 110s and 90s a rangie bob tail
> etc.) I occasionally see them on a Sunday morning when we take our
> spaniels up there for their walk.
>
> Are any of you on this list? (I have the blue/white 110 with roofrack
> and three spaniels - not on the roof rack
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
>

You could try contacting your local club, Sommerset & Wilts being
one http://www.dentaltime.co.uk/swlrc/

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
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