Camcorders

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fanatic

fanatic

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Girlfriend decided that as we have a 1080i or 1080p 1920x1080 resolution 42 inch tv it was time for a new camcorder.

Our old one is an everio mega pixel with 32 times optical zoom.

She has bought two different brands both use sd card and we have tried a 4gb san disk high speed and a different make 1gb sd card.

Both the results on an alleged full hd 1080 camcorder look like a Jeremy 300 year old video.

Yet they claim to do either 8 or 10 mega pixel stills.
One thing I noticed is there is a lot of picture noise and altering exposure does not reduce it!

I'm scratching my head how a supposed better spec newer set of camcorders can give **** results unless they are **** at sd card writing or the raw image proccessing software toss!

Any Ideas as I'm stumped.:doh:
 
Dunno what model you got but there are several factors that affect pic quality - and the model you have may let you adjust certain parameters. There are 3 of interest...

ISO
Shutter Speed
Aperture

For a picture to work (and it's exactly the same on a video camera which is just a series of photos!) a certain amount of light needs to hit the sensor. If there isn't enough light, the camera (or you if in manual mode) will adjust one of these things.

First it will adjust the aperture, which will only affect the depth of field (amount of the photo which is in focus compared to the item it is focussing on). If it is dark the camera will open the aperture to let more light in which will reduce the depth of field.

Second it will adjust shutter speed. In low light the picture may seem to start to appear blurry as the shutter speed will be slower and not pick up movement sharply.

Third it will adjust the ISO rating of the sensor. This reduces the number of pixels active on a digital sensor, which gives an impression of graininess to the image.

Try taking one in good light and see if it looks better - if so, it's just the way it appears in low light! Maybe you need a better camera...???
 
Oddie said:
Dunno what model you got but there are several factors that affect pic quality - and the model you have may let you adjust certain parameters. There are 3 of interest...

ISO
Shutter Speed
Aperture

For a picture to work (and it's exactly the same on a video camera which is just a series of photos!) a certain amount of light needs to hit the sensor. If there isn't enough light, the camera (or you if in manual mode) will adjust one of these things.

First it will adjust the aperture, which will only affect the depth of field (amount of the photo which is in focus compared to the item it is focussing on). If it is dark the camera will open the aperture to let more light in which will reduce the depth of field.

Second it will adjust shutter speed. In low light the picture may seem to start to appear blurry as the shutter speed will be slower and not pick up movement sharply.

Third it will adjust the ISO rating of the sensor. This reduces the number of pixels active on a digital sensor, which gives an impression of graininess to the image.

Try taking one in good light and see if it looks better - if so, it's just the way it appears in low light! Maybe you need a better camera...???
Click to expand...

I've a digital slr camera for stills and I understand what your saying, I'm just severely disappointed for her that a product claiming to 1920x1080 can give webcam results.

I have tried the settings you suggested and on watching it again it appears to be a focusing and almost a frame rate lag issue.

This is apparent on camera via hdmi through 2 tv 's and also directly off card via various programs. Tried a different card and I still fail to understand why a better spec on paper provides terrible results

So it looks like it is going back:doh:
 
Last edited:
If yer looking to buy another camcorder, have a look on youtube. Several magazines post on there, and test drive camcorder/cameras etc. They tell you what they think of them, what they're good for, downsides to options and design etc. Just type in the make and model.
 
Thanks she wanted to buy it with her own money- but I'd sooner chip in a bit more and get one that gives nice quality, even if it costs more.

We want to take it to use for our daughters days out etc as a lot of my relatives live between 170 and 700 miles away.

I'll get looking for some reviews and some actual footage off some of the possible choices.

From our experience sd card camcorders in the £150-£250 range are crap-think a hdd model may be more convenient.
 
got a sanyo xacti cg10 good camera uses the scandisk sdhc 16gb memory card have a look at the phobucket link in my signature you want the aldermston and devils pit video on ther from it

Dual so can do stills while recording vid and full HD
 
Putting hi def video on a data card needs enormous capacity cards or horrendous amounts of data compression - which buggers the picture quality. Compressed HD can look worse than less compressed SD. The pro boys use camcorders with multiple 64G cards or record to external hard drives for HD.
 
oxides said:
Putting hi def video on a data card needs enormous capacity cards or horrendous amounts of data compression - which buggers the picture quality. Compressed HD can look worse than less compressed SD. The pro boys use camcorders with multiple 64G cards or record to external hard drives for HD.
Click to expand...

That would explain a worse resolution than a lower resolution camera with hdd-you could be onto something there.

I also found out that cmos are more common than ccd and cmos can have "shuttering" issues


My old camcorder

  • 16:9 Recording Format: Yes
  • 3 Chip Technic: No
  • Chip Type: CCD
  • Compact Flash Card: No
  • Depth in mm: 110
  • Digital Input: No
  • Digital Zoom (Ratio): 800
  • Firewire IEEE-1394 Interface: Yes
  • Handheld Position: Horizontal
  • Hard Disk Capacity in GB: 40
  • Height (mm): 71
  • Highest Focal Length in mm: 80
  • Image Stabiliser: Digital Image Stabiliser
  • LCD Screen Size in Inches: 2.7
  • Lowest Focal Length in mm: 2.8
  • Maximum Aperture Tele: 4.5
  • Maximum Aperture Wide: 1.8
  • Maximum Pixel (in Megapixel): 1.07
  • Memory Stick: No
  • Multimedia Card: No
  • Optical Zoom (Ratio): 32
  • Photo Resolution Heigth in Pixel: 864
  • Photo Resolution Width in Pixel: 1152
  • Resolution: Standard Definition
  • Secure Digital Card: Yes
  • Smart Media Card: No
  • USB Interface: Yes
  • Video System: HDD
  • Viewfinder: No
  • Weight in Grams: 330
  • Width (mm): 66
  • Wireless Interface: No
  • xD-Picture Card: No
 
fanatic said:
Thanks she wanted to buy it with her own money- but I'd sooner chip in a bit more and get one that gives nice quality, even if it costs more.

We want to take it to use for our daughters days out etc as a lot of my relatives live between 170 and 700 miles away.

I'll get looking for some reviews and some actual footage off some of the possible choices.

From our experience sd card camcorders in the £150-£250 range are crap-think a hdd model may be more convenient.
Click to expand...

I agree - i got a [ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-HDR-FX7E-Handycam-HDV-1080i/dp/B000KYKZUQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1300699667&sr=1-1"]Sony FX7e[/ame] which records onto a mini DV tape and the quality is truly awesome but then they cost a fookin fortune new when i got it - if you want proper good quality you need to be spending towards a grand, and certainly over £500 i reckon.
 
While there are so many things that can affect the quality, the main thing you need is a bigger sensor. All that many pixels crammed into a small area will reduce the quality especially in low light as Oddie says. Its the same in a camera or camcorder (and thats why Oddie was such a noggin to get a 7D :p) CMOS sensors are actually better in general which is why you see pro level cameras with them in.
 
nuffink wrong with a 7D - quality is superb ta! If i had the spare 3 grand kicking about i might have got a better one but i int! I have no complaints about it!
 
This is what I have;

[ame=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-Camcorder-Recording-Intelligent-Recognition/dp/B0031RG4HM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300723223&sr=8-1]Panasonic SD60 Full HD Camcorder With SD Card: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics[/ame]

Perfect image quality for around £300, don't really need to spend any more than that as an amateur.

Here's a couple of videos to show you the quality

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY3oRa2QQq4"]YouTube - Panasonic HDC SD60[/nomedia]

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6sPdG864O0&feature=related"]YouTube - Panasonic HDC-SD60 | Quality Test[/nomedia]

Whack them into HD, pretty stunning :D
 
but the 5d isn't really better. It crams an extra (pointless - well for me anyway) 5 megapixels in to the larger sensor and has a processor that can't cope with shooting very fast. The pixels aren't bigger or more sensitive, they are the same, only there's more of them - i don't see the benefit (except in a number-of-pixels war).

Why do you think the 5d has come down so massively in price but the 7d hasn't? It's because the 7d does everything the 5d does only not on a full frame sensor and it's slower to boot. People get so het up about full frame sensors - keep up man!
 
Oddie you really can't argue that a full frame sensor is no better than a crop frame. The 7D is a newer camera aimed at a different market. That is why it's relatively expensive.
 
The 7d (released sep 09)is only marginaly newer than the 5d2 and i'm not arguing that it's better, i'm just arguing about being called a noggin for getting one! I guess the "better" is the £600 price difference - so it's what you can afford - i'm not calling you a noggin for buying a £1600 5d over a £5k 1d mk3 coz that's not what you need. If there was no market for it (coz peeps are all noggins) they wouldn't invent the thing would they?
 
Oddie I thought LZ was somewhere you could take the **** and laugh about it :eek: I didn't pay £5k for my camera and I don't have a 5D so I don't know where you are coming from on that? :confused:

When making professional level cameras (5d, 1d, 1ds series) Canon always ask professionals what they want from a new model. For the 7d they asked consumers since it was aimed at that market. On the whole its easier to sell a camera with more megapixels to a consumer because of that myth that it makes your images so much better.
 
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