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buying a crock of ****!!! - or if you already have!!

Discussion in 'General Land Rover Forum' started by The Mad Hat Man, Apr 17, 2009.

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  1. The Mad Hat Man

    The Mad Hat Man Well-Known Member LZIR Despatch Agent

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    Coz i have posted this at least 3 times in 2 days - I have posted it here so it can be found easily...
    Plse can it be a sticky - so I dont loose it.;)


    Within 6 months - you are still covered by the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002 - not fit for purpose or not of satisfactory quality - take it back and say it is unfit for purpose and you want it fixed FOC within *** days or your money back.

    The obligations to provide goods of satisfactory quality are more or less the same as those stipulated under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (see BIF 142 A Guide to the Sale of Goods Act 1979). The Regulations also require traders to provide remedies where goods are not of satisfactory quality.

    The effect of the Regulations is to create an automatic presumption, in favour of the consumer, that any defect in a product manifesting itself within six months is 'inherent'. This means that the defect was present at the time of sale. The burden of proof is on the trader to prove otherwise. The Regulations also provide a time limit of six years (five years in Scotland), during which period any claims for compensation may be submitted to a court.

    I think you will find that the peeps wot sold yu the car are legally obliged to supply you with a motor - unless yu bought it, knowing that it was defective.
     
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  2. The Mad Hat Man

    The Mad Hat Man Well-Known Member LZIR Despatch Agent

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    Here is a sample letter to write to the offending supplier (curtesy of the Beeb )



    Rejecting a new car template letter

    Your Address

    The dealership address

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    I recently bought a car from your company (name company) on (date). The car is (model, make, reg number). A major fault with the vehicle has been apparent since (when?). I am dissatisfied with the product I have bought from you and as such I would like to reject this car.

    The faults with the car are as follows (describe the faults) and I have had an independent inspection of my vehicle (name garage). They have listed the faults as follows (list what the independent expert says)

    OR

    I have allowed the dealership (name dealership) to attempt to fix the problem (s) with my car. To date, the car has been with your mechanics (how many times?) in (how many weeks/months?) I made it clear from the outset in writing that my allowing you to repair would not affect my right of rejection and accordingly as you have been given ample opportunity to correct the faults with the vehicle, but with no satisfactory conclusion, I am therefore rejecting this car.

    I refer you to the Sale of Goods Act 1979, specifically Section 14 which details that the car I bought from you must be of satisfactory quality. From my own judgement and that of the independent expert (name garage) I believe that the car you have sold me is not of a satisfactory quality, as such I believe you are contravening Section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

    I request that you pay me the full amount for my car which totals (£ how much did you buy the car for?) or replace it with another equivalent car. I expect to hear from you to confirm you have received this letter so we can arrange a refund or replacement within the next two weeks. I have stopped driving the car in line with my rejection and I request that you collect it at the earliest opportunity.

    If you fail to accept my right to reject this car I will be forced to progress with legal proceedings in the County Court in order to recover the money.

    Yours Sincerely
     
    Nig and Roverspoons like this.
  3. fanatic

    fanatic Bye LZIR Despatch Agent

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    Following on

    1) A4 pad write all details so far and time and dates etc - keeps important details fresh, stick to facts only written down eg.

    11:05am 13/11/10 contacted mr blogs at daily motors and explained the following issues with the vehicle.

    Mr Blogs said bring the vehicle in on 15/11/10 at 16:00 for him to inspect

    2) Contact Consumer Direct (trading standards and free legal advice all on one number)
    08454 04 05 06
    They will explain your rights legally as a consumer and legal terms such as "Satisfactory Quality" and "Fit For Purpose"
    Consumer Direct very handy website for your rights as a consumer

    If you don't like 0845 numbers then SAYNOTO0870.COM - Non-Geographical Alternative Telephone Numbers

    3) phone VOSA national helpline
    Make sure you say "you believe that issues were there at the time of MOT and you believe you have been sold a car with a dubious MOT".

    They should log your details and give you the local area office number-VOSA should offer to look at vehicle and you will have a vehicle report / official view.

    The reason you need to imply the issues were there before and after MOT test date were because
    VOSA only interested in MOT day and
    1 Months Mechanical
    3 months Corrosion

    But vehicle must still be kept road worthy.

    That said you want them to ask to look at it for you, because a vosa & trading standards threat of prosecution=99% chance of deep trouble for trader as judge will class VOSA opinion as expert witness
    (As far as I remember inspection was free or a nominal amount)


    Before paying for an inspection go the vosa route as it will be the undeniable inspection and they tend to have massive leverage with rogue traders in conjuntion with trading standards- i.e. refund or prosecution.

    I know desperation to resolve it sets in, but the route I suggest is really the best way-as it gives it report absolute authority and hopefully means your not involved in a long winded court case and great expense

    Be and objective -it's one of many cars

    1) Follow the process we discussed

    2) Depending on what the outcome is you may be presented with option of fix or refund , fix & partial refund -personally if you have had poor customer service the refund is way to go.
    (you don't want more dealings with a dealer who won't even look)

    3) Consider after the current agro if you got a refund -maybe asking one of the regulars local to you to cast an eye over a future purchase
    (even if you need to bribe them with beer/food or cash).
    Or RAC or AA inspection

    4) if they repaired it satisfactorily then again a result.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2010
  4. fanatic

    fanatic Bye LZIR Despatch Agent

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    Okay we have dealt with the scenario where by you know the location of the person who you had a purchasing problem with.


    But what happens say for instance if you:-
    a) Sent a cheque to a po box number.

    b) Bought of ebay and didn't pay by paypal.

    c) Bought of a website or even a forum member.

    d) Go to their office and they have gone.

    They appear to have disappeared, but usually with a little investigation most can still be located-Just use the pieces of the puzzle you know to fine more pieces.


    Name and Location is enough to go and do a Search for People, Businesses and Places - 192.com check which will pull up electoral roll etc.
    (Proprietors name, email addresses, forum profiles, etc etc should give you a name and search location)


    Bank transfer you can find out the persons branch (hopefully close to where they live) via sort code.


    Websites you can do a whois lookup at nominet for uk websites go here Nominet
    If their details don't come up as a trading individual-tell nominet they are running a business here
    Nominet - FAQ
    Hopefully they will no longer be able to opt out out and you have an address.

    If the site is running fraud, you can use nominet to contact site hosting company

    If they have moved, phone their old neighbours via 192.com (this costs, but is well worth it if your owed hundreds)and if they opted out of electoral roll a visit to their local library should help as you can view records.



    Insolvency Service would be another good place to check The Insolvency Service Website check for disqualified directors and bankrupt's etc


    Companies House for a check of company and directors
    WebCHeck - Select and Access Company Information


    Po Boxes are handy to hide behind and if used illegally contact their local sorting office and explain the issue.


    Google name and contact details so for instance you know


    qwerty12345 has a mobile number of 07978 999 999 and as 07978999999 so try the persons details and see what pops up. People may change location and keep existing mobile number which they post in adverts etc.


    Try the email address and see what you can find.

    Ebay and Social networking are also potential private data leak sources.

    Roadside Sellers are dumb enough to change phone number and park vehicles for sale in same locations-get your mate to phone and ask to view.
    (magnum pi style tail them home)

    Registration Number - some people are dumb enough to post it on internet and it can prove useful if they use as a forum login.


    Highlight rogue traders
    Consider a blog and possibly a website highlighting your problem with a company,stay factually accurate to avoid problems. Owners of a certain Japan 4x4 did this to highlight engine issue.

    If you need help you may contact me privately for legitimate problems and I will see what I privately can find for you-by this I mean no copy and paste of locations and details on LZ forum threads.

    Safest way to pay on the internet is by credit card, this must be direct transaction and not through paypal or similar third party -as you loose your visa / mastercard rights.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2011
  5. The Mad Hat Man

    The Mad Hat Man Well-Known Member LZIR Despatch Agent

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    Ask?
     
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  6. fanatic

    fanatic Bye LZIR Despatch Agent

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    Compulsory Europe Wide 2 Year Warranty
    (Even if the warranty sates 1 year, there is a European directive that states you have 2years- subject to certain conditions.)

    Now I found a rather nice leaflet that explains with examples your 2 year warranty rights clearly.
    EU wide 2 year compulsory warranty 1999/44/EC

    Original article

    While it may not be the holy grail, it does at least give you some more clout with product warranty issues

    False advertising,not of satisfactory quality and not fit for purpose etc-European Wide

    Directive 2005/29/EC or the “Unfair Commercial Practices Directive”
    Relatively straight forward.


    Both are Europe wide and it doesn't matter what country the Buyer / Seller or Manufacturer are in.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2012
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