Burnt out - rebuild

dag019 said:

I will have a look at the engine before pulling it out, the fan belt is still intact so I am happy the cambelt is likely to be ok short term to test is starting.

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remove the cover (over the injection-pump's pulley) on the tming case & have a looksee, if theres belt damage there'll probably be carbon . dust from the rubber in there?

dag019 said:

I will pull the rocker cover and remover the melted remains of the oil cap

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won't stop the engine running though

dag019 said:

a quick look at the injector pump I am not sure if that will have survived, I don't know what rubber seals etc are inside of the injector pump but I can certainly see some melt residue around the throttle spindle.

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from your photo, things don't look too bad there...



theres a nylon / plastic disc on the ip's spindle that seperates the return spring - probably this thea is fried

some fuel-pipe to a can, remove any wiring / alternator belt (isolates alternator creating charge - more fizz) and hotwire direct to the startermotor from a battery (+12v & earth, +12v to ip stop-solenoid and momentary power (screwdriver / spanner crossing terminals) for starter solenoid

ALSO...

look @ oilcooler hoses as these can make a little mess if damaged

Rich.

Zed. said:

some fuel-pipe to a can, remove any wiring / alternator belt (isolates alternator creating charge - more fizz) and hotwire direct to the startermotor from a battery (+12v & earth, +12v to ip stop-solenoid and momentary power (screwdriver / spanner crossing terminals) for starter solenoid

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That is not problem, I am happy with how to get it running from a can and jump start direct. I did the same thing with a 2.25 to make sure it ran before doing an further work to it and dropping it into a friend series 1.

Zed. said:

heres a nylon / plastic disc on the ip's spindle that seperates the return spring - probably this thea is fried

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If that is all it is that would be great, I have refurbed the throttle spindle before (all be it too long ago to remember what and how) but i know it needed the bush replacing because it was badly leaking fuel. I had a thread on it on here at the time.

Zed. said:

won't stop the engine running though

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It wont but for the sake of removing the rocker cover it should be easy enough to fish out rather than leaving it to get chewed up inside.

Well the Insurmace assessor has been out and I am now awaiting his report which can take about a week apparently. He was not the nicest of people but I guess no one involved with insurance is. I made some Throw away comment about not being able to put a price on sentimental value and his reply was “you should be sentimental About vehicles they are just a lump of metal”
He was also fairly adamant that because it is fire damaged it will Automatically be a cat B. Even if it is easily repairable and arguable
Doesn’t even have structural damage (just a little paint singing on the bulkhead). But similar the the phone call where as soon as I said fire it was “beyond economic repair” it seems fire automatically puts it into that catagory. If that is the case the claim will be cancelled as that means it need to go to and authorised breakers yard and cannot be put back on the road. If the claim is cancelled I can retain and rebuild, the insurance company has no say in the matter and the incident does not get held against the vehicle moving forward. I also get to keep my no claims!

dag019 said:

Well the Insurmace assessor has been out and I am now awaiting his report which can take about a week apparently. He was not the nicest of people but I guess no one involved with insurance is. I made some Throw away comment about not being able to put a price on sentimental value and his reply was “you should be sentimental About vehicles they are just a limp of metal”
He was also fairly adamant that because it is fire damaged it will Automatically be a cat B. Even if it is easily repairable and arguable
Doesn’t even have structural damage (just a little paint singing on the bulkhead). But similar the the phone call where as soon as I said fire it was “beyond economic repair” it seems fire automatically puts it into that catagory. If that is the case the claim will be cancelled as that means it need to go to and authorised breakers yard and cannot be put back on the road. If the claim is cancelled I can retain and rebuild, the insurance company has no say in the matter and the incident does not get held against the vehicle moving forward. I also get to keep my no claims!

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Looks like we know which way this is going then!

Stanleysteamer said:

Looks like we know which way this is going then!

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Indeed. I. The mean time I have to get my mums td5 90 Back on the road so I can borrow that while I rebuild mine. There is nothing wrong with it it has just been laid up in the garage for years. So a good service, swap my wheels (current ones are badly scuffed down to the white banded sidewalls) and battery onto it and put it in for an mot. Only problem is she is in the valleys, I am in the midlands, and my 110 is in bath!
I am Also guessing that after several years standing as soon as I start to use it all of the rubber suspension parts will give up And need replacing! But it will be a lot quicker to get up And running than mine so I don’t have to drive the series everywhere.

dag019 said:

Indeed. I. The mean time I have to get my mums td5 90 Back on the road so I can borrow that while I rebuild mine. There is nothing wrong with it it has just been laid up in the garage for years. So a good service, swap my wheels (current ones are badly scuffed down to the white banded sidewalls) and battery onto it and put it in for an mot. Only problem is she is in the valleys, I am in the midlands, and my 110 is in bath!
I am Also guessing that after several years standing as soon as I start to use it all of the rubber suspension parts will give up And need replacing! But it will be a lot quicker to get up And running than mine so I don’t have to drive the series everywhere.

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Well sounds like a bit of a runaround, but still if needs be, needs be.
Where in Bath if i may ask?
Only interested as I lived there for years and love the place!

dag019 said:

Indeed. I. The mean time I have to get my mums td5 90 Back on the road so I can borrow that while I rebuild mine. There is nothing wrong with it it has just been laid up in the garage for years. So a good service, swap my wheels (current ones are badly scuffed down to the white banded sidewalls) and battery onto it and put it in for an mot. Only problem is she is in the valleys, I am in the midlands, and my 110 is in bath!
I am Also guessing that after several years standing as soon as I start to use it all of the rubber suspension parts will give up And need replacing! But it will be a lot quicker to get up And running than mine so I don’t have to drive the series everywhere.

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...and the brake and clutch bits will also need possibly replacing, i.e. rubber/nitrile bits. And the clutch may be stuck on.
not trying to upset you or anything! But I have come across all this more than once.
And that is not touching on the electrics.
Give Fuzz Townsend a ring, or maybe not!

Stanleysteamer said:

Well sounds like a bit of a runaround, but still if needs be, needs be.
Where in Bath if i may ask?
Only interested as I lived there for years and love the place!

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What makes it even more of a run around is the hire car I currently have for work is a golf and am unconvinced even with seats folded down I will fit 4x 265/75/16 BFG AT wheels in it. So it may end up being two trips!
My friends yard is outside Bradford upon Avon so not truly bath. But near enough and he lives in bath. .

Stanleysteamer said:

...and the brake and clutch bits will also need possibly replacing, i.e. rubber/nitrile bits. And the clutch may be stuck on.
not trying to upset you or anything! But I have come across all this more than once.
And that is not touching on the electrics.
Give Fuzz Townsend a ring, or maybe not!

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I know clutch is free as it was until recently regularly started and run up to temperature. But again I am expecting a lot of Issues in the first couple Of months of running it. As can be expected with any vehicle that has been standing.
Last time I looked the injectors loom was clean so that is one less worry there is just all the other bloody sensors to worry about!

dag019 said:

What makes it even more of a run around is the hire car I currently have for work is a golf and am uncomimced even with seats folded down I will fit 4x 265/75/16 BFG AT wheels in it. So it may end up being two trips!
My friends yard is outside Bradford upon Avon so not truly bath. But near enough and he lives in bath. .

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I went to prep school in Bradford on Avon, Yes, THAT one.
But before the kiddyfiddler joined the staff. and i wasn't a boarder, so no probs.
My dad used to drink with Jem Marsh of Marcos fame in the Swan while waiting to pick me up from school. Never knowing I'd be so into kit cars later on in life.
Lived in Bath till 1973, Beaufort West, London Road, wish we still had the house, the feckers are worth well over a mill now. Loved the place.
As for the wheels, can you put at least some in the boot with the lid tied down but open? You'd have to drive with windows open to avoid poisoning yourself!
I know it's a hire car but maybe take all the seats out except yours?
I've done that more than once!!!
Best of luck with it all, mate!

dag019 said:

I know clutch is free as it was until recently regularly started and run up to temperature. But again I am expecting a lot of Issues in the first couple Of months of running it. As can be expected with any vehicle that has been standing.
Last time I looked the injectors loom was clean so that is one less worry there is just all the other bloody sensors to worry about!

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That's a lot better then!
Fingers crossed!

Well having chased the insurance on Friday they have received the engineers report on the vehicle and are now waiting for it to be reviewed by an assessor. So I may find out what is happening this week.

In more positive news I have begun some of the basic work on the td5 90, it now has my wheels fitted as its tyres were cracked from sitting. i have freed off the handbrake and had a cursory check over of the brake and clutch system which both seem to be working (stationary) with no leaks. On Wednesday it will get a full fluid change, service and a new battery to then hopefully start it and check the electrics prior to an mot.

If anyone can recommend a good MOT center in south wales please see my thread here: link
If anyone is any good with car audio/stereos please see my thread here: link

dag019 said:

Well having chased the insurance on Friday they have received the engineers report on the vehicle and are now waiting for it to be reviewed by an assessor. So I may find out what is happening this week.

In more positive news I have begun some of the basic work on the td5 90, it now has my wheels fitted as its tyres were cracked from sitting. i have freed off the handbrake and had a cursory check over of the brake and clutch system which both seem to be working (stationary) with no leaks. On Wednesday it will get a full fluid change, service and a new battery to then hopefully start it and check the electrics prior to an mot.

If anyone can recommend a good MOT center in south wales please see my thread here: link
If anyone is any good with car audio/stereos please see my thread here: link

View attachment 245661

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Looking good.
Best of luck mate!

Well I have just had a text message come though from a third party company which have been instructed to collect my vehicle! Phoned the insurance and the assessors report has come back as a cat B. the problem I now have is despite the assessor saying I would be able to cancel the claim the insurance company are now saying that I am too late to cancel the claim and because they have had the report back it now has to be filed. I have very unhappy and have complained and will get a call back from a team leader before EOB tomorrow. there is also a (I got the impression slim) chance that I could appeal the engineers report. They have cancelled the vehicle collection now, as I have stated form the very first time I contacted them that under no circumstances will I be relinquishing the vehicle. Does anyone have any experience with appealing an insurance assessment?

I am going to contact my local independent land rover specialist and see if they have any experience with it, but as usual I fell they are trying to treat the defender as a normal hatchback not a modular vehicle every piece of which can be bought new and replaced.

dag019 said:

Well I have just had a text message come though from a third party company which have been instructed to collect my vehicle! Phoned the insurance and the assessors report has come back as a cat B. the problem I now have is despite the assessor saying I would be able to cancel the claim the insurance company are now saying that I am too late to cancel the claim and because they have had the report back it now has to be filed. I have very unhappy and have complained and will get a call back from a team leader before EOB tomorrow. there is also a (I got the impression slim) chance that I could appeal the engineers report. They have cancelled the vehicle collection now, as I have stated form the very first time I contacted them that under no circumstances will I be relinquishing the vehicle. Does anyone have any experience with appealing an insurance assessment?

I am going to contact my local independent land rover specialist and see if they have any experience with it, but as usual I fell they are trying to treat the defender as a normal hatchback not a modular vehicle every piece of which can be bought new and replaced.

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Have been watching this and really sorry for you.

Cat B is bad, dont agree.

From web.

"Category B (unchanged)
Body shell should be crushed. Signifies extensive damage, although some parts are salvageable.

Should never re-appear on road, although reclaimed parts can be used in other road-going vehicles."

That is not good and may hinder you after repair to get insurance again.

I would get a quote from a local indy on repair costs its worth a comparison. Its the Cat B from the assessor that maybe causing the problem, Could you ask for another assessment and be there at the time so you can chat with the guy about it (donuts )
As you have done continue to keep it in your possession.

Was it fully comp? I dont know if it makes any diff but somebody may.

Feel for you, Good luck.

J

marjon said:

Have been watching this and really sorry for you.

Cat B is bad, dont agree.

From web.

"Category B (unchanged)
Body shell should be crushed. Signifies extensive damage, although some parts are salvageable.

Should never re-appear on road, although reclaimed parts can be used in other road-going vehicles."

That is not good and may hinder you after repair to get insurance again.

I would get a quote from a local indy on repair costs its worth a comparison. Its the Cat B from the assessor that maybe causing the problem, Could you ask for another assessment and be there at the time so you can chat with the guy about it (donuts )
As you have done continue to keep it in your possession.

Was it fully comp? I dont know if it makes any diff but somebody may.

Feel for you, Good luck.

J

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Cat B is broken for parts but is not aimed at land rovers, the body shell crushing means chassis in a modern monocoque design. Even if it does remain a cat B I am going to retain it and use the parts to rebuild another 110 to the same spec.

I have contacted my local independent to see what their opinion is, I have used them for years and hopefully they will be helpful. At this point the cost or repair is not relevant as it will still be a write off, the important part is if it can safely be retuned to the road or not regardless of how much that might cost. In my talk with the assessor it was a bit of a tick box exercise and regardless of damage just the fact it is fire damage means it is a cat B which is not a position I understand and surely if that is the case did not need an assessor to come out and view the vehicle. I am going to push for an independent assessment from a land rover specialist if they need another engineers report. There should be no point at which a defender cannot be safely put back to a road going state if costs are not a factor. From my understanding the write off decision is about costs, the category is about safety and cost is not relevant.

I am fully comp but it does not seem to matter, it seems again to be a case of insurance is there for the third party you run into and has nothing to do with you or your losses.

dag019 said:

Well I have just had a text message come though from a third party company which have been instructed to collect my vehicle! Phoned the insurance and the assessors report has come back as a cat B. the problem I now have is despite the assessor saying I would be able to cancel the claim the insurance company are now saying that I am too late to cancel the claim and because they have had the report back it now has to be filed. I have very unhappy and have complained and will get a call back from a team leader before EOB tomorrow. there is also a (I got the impression slim) chance that I could appeal the engineers report. They have cancelled the vehicle collection now, as I have stated form the very first time I contacted them that under no circumstances will I be relinquishing the vehicle. Does anyone have any experience with appealing an insurance assessment?

I am going to contact my local independent land rover specialist and see if they have any experience with it, but as usual I fell they are trying to treat the defender as a normal hatchback not a modular vehicle every piece of which can be bought new and replaced.

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What a sh!t!
As far as I know, the vehicle is yours and they cannot take it off you. They don't own it until they pay for it!
If you put in writing the fact you're cancelling the claim, you expect no monies from them and that no one will be allowed to take the vehicle away, and if anyone does it will be treated as theft, then I think you'll get away with it.
I take it no monies have arrived in your bank account?
Could you also say you are disputing the claim amount anyway, etc etc.
At the end of the day all the harm you could possibly have done to them is to make them waste a bit of their time.
As there is no structural damage beyond the fire, and it is questionable that the fire has rendered the chassis unfit for purpose I would strongly question the validity of the assessor's report.
We once had a similar under-bonnet fire in a car that had a chassis, fibreglass bonnet, and aluminium engine bay compartment sides. the bonnet had to be replaced and the engine compartment sides took a bit of a hit too, but were simply straightened up and painted. The ruined engine bits( electrical and fuel) were replaced. (In our case the engine was running at the time and the car was being driven down the road.)
Never any question of it being fixed and put back on the road, which we did and sold it on no probs.
I'd be very strongly thinking about getting a "second opinion" type independent assessment from an engineer/assessor who is qualified to assess vehicles of this type. Not some numpty who only knows about monocoques.

The fact is they have jumped the gun by filing the report and don't want to look like dickheads by having to say a mistake was made and ask for it to be repealed. So they are trying to make you accept their error.
Do hope you get this sorted.

dag019 said:

Cat be is broken for parts but is not aimed at land rovers, the body shell crushing means chassis in a modern monocoque design. Even if it does remain a cat B I am going to retain it and use the parts to rebuild another 110 to the same spec.

I have contacted my local independent to see what their opinion is, I have used them for years and hopefully they will be helpful. At this point the cost or repair is not relevant as it will still be a write off, the important part is if it can safely be retuned to the road or not regardless of how much that might cost. In my talk with the assessor it was a bit of a tick box exercise and regardless of damage just the fact it is fire damage means it is a cat B which is not a position I understand and surely if that is the case did not need an assessor to come out and view the vehicle. I am going to push for an independent assessment from a land rover specialist if they need another engineers report. There should be no point at which a defender cannot be safely put back to a road going state if costs are not a factor. From my understanding the write off decision is about costs, the category is about safety and cost is not relevant.

I am fully comp but it does not seem to matter, it seems again to be a case of insurance is there for the third party you run into and has nothing to do with you or your losses.

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Totally see you frustration, which was why I suggested you were there with the next assessor.
As you say the definition of a "B" i also feel should not really be applied to a car as a Land rover of this flavor. But its the aftermath of trying to get it insurance again that would be a worry.

Were you on an agreed value?
Did they actually give/calculate a rebuild cost? or just say "B" forget it?

J

Stanleysteamer said:

As there is no structural damage beyond the fire, and it is questionable that the fire has rendered the chassis unfit for purpose I would strongly question the validity of the assessor's report.

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I spoke to the assessor about this when he was looking at it as I said the same thing basted on the new categories it should be a cat N as there is no structural damage (chassis) the fire was above it and there is no fire evidence on the chassis. Apparently They count the bulkhead as part of the structure and that is fire damaged, the fact that I have a new galv one in the garage ready to fit and it is a swappable part apparently is not relevant

Stanleysteamer said:

As far as I know, the vehicle is yours and they cannot take it off you. They don't own it until they pay for it!
If you put in writing the fact you're cancelling the claim, you expect no monies from them and that no one will be allowed to take the vehicle away, and if anyone does it will be treated as theft, then I think you'll get away with it.

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That is only half the problem though, apparently now they have had a report claiming it should be Cat B they have to report it as such and record it against the vehicle weather they pay out or not. if they do not pay me they do not own the vehicle and I get to keep it but it still has a Cat B record against it cannot go back on the road.

Stanleysteamer said:

I take it no monies have arrived in your bank account?
Could you also say you are disputing the claim amount anyway, etc etc.

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Not got that far yet, because I have disputed the finding of the report I have not even got to the point of being offered a settlement. so don't even know what value they are considering.

Stanleysteamer said:

I'd be very strongly thinking about getting a "second opinion" type independent assessment from an engineer/assessor who is qualified to assess vehicles of this type. Not some numpty who only knows about monocoques.

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That is what i am going to talk to the "team leader" about when they call back. I want an independent land rover specialist to assess the vehicle and give their professional opinion on if it can safely be returned to the road.

Stanleysteamer said:

The fact is they have jumped the gun by filing the report and don't want to look like dickheads by having to say a mistake was made and ask for it to be repealed. So they are trying to make you accept their error.

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Despite claiming to be land rover specialist (adrian flux) the underwriters (not adrian flux) are clearly not used to dealing with these vehicle or the sorts of people who own them. Both times now the first contact I have had has been a third party company wanting to arrange a time to take the vehicle away. They are not used to people want to keep the vehicle or having the means and willing to store a broken vehicle.