Best news this week (for me)

On or around Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:21:01 +0100, "Greg"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in
>message
>
>> The vehicle is fully legal and "taxed", but I have to wait 5 days for the
>> new tax disc.
>
>And be at the mercy of the postal service... This is exactly why I won't use
>the on-line system, what if I get pulled in that 5 days or up to as many
>days as it takes to get a replacement sent if it's lost in the post along
>with the millions of other items.

I think you can get away with it if you're awaiting the disc. dibbles
checking can find out now if it's taxed, and once you fork over the
electronic readies, it's taxed.

's a bit like the thing where if you've ALREADY applied by post, you have 14
days grace. If you sent the application by post on the 29th, you're allowed
14 days to get the new disc. Presuming that you tax online back to the
beginning of the current month, I assume that they can only do you for
"failure to display", but I doubt they'd take that to court in a situation
where you could prove you'd paid for it.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

On or around Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:44:32 +0100, Ian Rawlings
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On 2006-10-22, Greg <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Some yes, but it currently stands at 14.6 million items a year lost and a
>> lot more late, here's the story:
>> http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=406889&in_page_id=2
>
>For the record, 14.6 million items lost or damaged in a year, versus
>22 billion that weren't. That's 0.06% of the deliveries that were
>****ed up if I've got my maths right. Not quite so "oh woe is me" as
>the story suggests, but they need to sell their papers so you get sold
>a lie.

or, more cunningly, a partial truth - which, if you're bothered, you can
presumably check up on and thus be more likely to trust it.

it is, as you say, rife.

27 people die from variant CJD!!!

OK, fine. there are probably 27,000,000 people at a very conservative
estimate who ate beef products during the period involved. odds of a
million to one, mind you, god-knows-how-many people willingly fork over
their quids on the lottery in the hope of a big win, despite the advertised
14,000,000:1 odds against it.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Once, when the secrets of science were the jealously guarded property of
a small priesthood, the common man had no hope of mastering their arcane
complexities. Years of study in musty classrooms were prerequisite to
obtaining even a dim, incoherent knowledge of science.
Today, all that has changed: a dim, incoherent knowledge of science is
available to anyone. - Tom Weller, Science Made Stupid, 1986

"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2006-10-22, Greg <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Some yes, but it currently stands at 14.6 million items a year lost and
a
> > lot more late, here's the story:
> >
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=406889&in_page_id=2
>
> That's a **** story. Beware of any story that tells you that x
> million widgets were screwed up that year but doesn't mention how many
> widgets weren't screwed up as it's relying on large numbers to scare
> you. It's an example of the sloppy journalism that's rife.
>
> For the record, 14.6 million items lost or damaged in a year, versus
> 22 billion that weren't. That's 0.06% of the deliveries that were
> ****ed up if I've got my maths right. Not quite so "oh woe is me" as
> the story suggests, but they need to sell their papers so you get sold
> a lie.
>
> So if you rely on the royal mail, you have a 99.98% chance of it
> working, whereas if you read a news outlet you have a 99.98% chance of
> being sold a cock-and-bull story in order that they can sell more
> advertising space.

Yes figures are a wonderful tool and can be made to say many things, of
course if you count the two point something million a DAY (can't be bothered
to find the link) that are delayed then you're talking one in 20 delayed and
that means one to two a week for me which IS significant.

Then there's the fact that some addresses lose mail FAR more often than
others, I used to live in an estate where all the roads began with
"Newlands" and had at least one a month go to number 18 on the wrong road.
Most people were good enough to stuff them back in the box but some weren't,
and even if they did it took the PO days to re-deliver them.

Remember the stupid system they have won't let you re-tax on-line more than
15 days prior for some reason even though you get the form about a month
early and can do it immediately at the PO, and they state 5 days delivery,
so it doesn't take much of a delay to leave you off the road.

Greg

On 2006-10-22, Greg <[email protected]> wrote:

> Then there's the fact that some addresses lose mail FAR more often
> than others, I used to live in an estate where all the roads began
> with "Newlands" and had at least one a month go to number 18 on the
> wrong road. Most people were good enough to stuff them back in the
> box but some weren't, and even if they did it took the PO days to
> re-deliver them.

That's more significant, local issues are what get you in the neck. I
used to get mail for a local business estate and they used to get me,
all because we shared one word in the first line of our address. I
also once got almost a whole sackful of mail shoved in big handfuls
through my letterbox for addresses all over the country, gawd knows
what that was all about!

****e in the press though, forget all that, it's the local stuff that
they don't know that's significant, I see that they're now telling us
that eating bread can give you cancer, why on earth do we bother
reading that ****.

> Remember the stupid system they have won't let you re-tax on-line more than
> 15 days prior for some reason even though you get the form about a month
> early and can do it immediately at the PO, and they state 5 days delivery,
> so it doesn't take much of a delay to leave you off the road.

Indeed, road tax is a PITA, especially as it's not mileage related,
but that's a whole separate rant ;-)

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Greg wrote:

|| "Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote
|| in message
||
||| I'm a realist. Given the size of the PO operation, some items
||| missing or damaged are inevitable. Whether "some" includes
||| numbers up to several millions is another matter, of course
||
|| Some yes, but it currently stands at 14.6 million items a year lost
|| and a lot more late, here's the story:
||
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=406889&in_page_id=2
||
|| So I'd much rather get my disc directly than mess about with the
|| on-line service.
||
|| Greg

I agree, 14.6m a year is too many, although AIUI the problem is mainly
confined to a limited number of areas, often inner cities with student or
relief staff. I live in a rural location, and I hionestly can't remember
the last time I had anything lost in the post. My experience, I have to
say, is pretty good.

To return to the original topic, since my rural post office shut years ago,
and getting a tax disc would involve time off work and/or a hassle parking
the car and a long wait in a queue, I'd rather do mine online and take the
tiny risk that it may be lost on the way.

--
Rich
==============================

Take out the obvious to email me.

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:58:03 +0100, Ian Rawlings
<[email protected]> scribbled the following nonsense:

>On 2006-10-22, Greg <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Then there's the fact that some addresses lose mail FAR more often
>> than others, I used to live in an estate where all the roads began
>> with "Newlands" and had at least one a month go to number 18 on the
>> wrong road. Most people were good enough to stuff them back in the
>> box but some weren't, and even if they did it took the PO days to
>> re-deliver them.
>
>That's more significant, local issues are what get you in the neck. I
>used to get mail for a local business estate and they used to get me,
>all because we shared one word in the first line of our address. I
>also once got almost a whole sackful of mail shoved in big handfuls
>through my letterbox for addresses all over the country, gawd knows
>what that was all about!
>
>****e in the press though, forget all that, it's the local stuff that
>they don't know that's significant, I see that they're now telling us
>that eating bread can give you cancer, why on earth do we bother
>reading that ****.
>

don't worry, I have a hunch than within the next 5 years, too much
Omega 3 Fish oil will give a 0.001% increase in the risk of cancer of
the eyelash (or some such thing), so that will be hyped up by the
media......

Our tabloid press sensationalise stuff beyond belief, and when you
have to teach Food Tech to kids, it can be fun, because they believe
evewry word in the Sun.

Still, there is a good reason why I have my own eggs, and why Xmas
Dinner will consist of corn fed cockerel, will I will select from my
flock on Xmas Eve...... Having worked in the poultry industry, I know
that the chickens presented to us in the supermarket at 6lb in weight
are less than 40 days old at slaughter. The reason they're so big: 22
hrs of daylight per day, and high protein feed, and when they drink,
that has protein in it as well, along with chemicals and antibiotics
because the things are that ill. Have even changed back to the local
butchers for meat, bit more expensive, but at least the stuff has
colour and flavour...
--

Simon Isaacs

"Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote"
George Jean Nathan (1882-1955)

ROT13 me....

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:19:31 +0100, Greg wrote:

> Remember the stupid system they have won't let you re-tax on-line more
> than 15 days prior for some reason even though you get the form about a
> month early and can do it immediately at the PO,

Not anymore and IIRC this has been the case for years. ISTR trying to
renew years ago (>15) before the 15th and being told that I couldn't. My
tax reminder flopped through the door last week, it runs out at the end
of the month. It has at least two warnings on it not to apply before the
15th of the month in which the expiry happens.

> and they state 5 days delivery, so it doesn't take much of a delay to
> leave you off the road.

But plod can check online that the car is taxed, the bit of paper is
becoming less and less relevant. Remember your *real* MOT certificate is
now the computer record not the bit of paper, that is just a
receipt/record of the computer data.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> But plod can check online that the car is taxed, the bit of paper is
> becoming less and less relevant. Remember your *real* MOT certificate is
> now the computer record not the bit of paper, that is just a
> receipt/record of the computer data.

To quote a government site "Any vehicle used or kept on a public road in the
United Kingdom is required, by law, to display a valid vehicle tax disc" so
you can get nicked for not displaying regardless of the fact you have paid
for it and are waiting for the post, at least that's how I interpret it. If
this were not the case why would anyone bother cluttering their window with
it?, you would be legal just possessing it.

Another interesting quote from the same site "But, if you apply for a tax
disc in advance, it comes into force on the first day of the following month
and you should not display it on your vehicle until then." so it seems you
could be done for putting your new disc in the window before the month end
as it is not yet valid and you are no longer displaying the old valid one!.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/Motoring/O...sArticle/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=10030643&chk=VAcx8G

Greg

"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in
message

> To return to the original topic, since my rural post office shut years
ago,
> and getting a tax disc would involve time off work and/or a hassle parking
> the car and a long wait in a queue, I'd rather do mine online and take the
> tiny risk that it may be lost on the way.

Fortunately ours is still open so I do as much as I can to help it, but the
government seems hell bent on making it unprofitable, last year they took
away their right to even hand out passport packs so you have to go to the
nearest town to pick one up, how stupid is that!.

Greg

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> 's a bit like the thing where if you've ALREADY applied by post, you have
14
> days grace. If you sent the application by post on the 29th, you're
allowed
> 14 days to get the new disc. Presuming that you tax online back to the
> beginning of the current month, I assume that they can only do you for
> "failure to display", but I doubt they'd take that to court in a situation
> where you could prove you'd paid for it.

I'm sorry but this is another thing that people believe but is no longer
valid, there is no 14 day grace any more, to quote the police web site:

"Have I got 14 days grace to get my new tax disc when it runs out? No, there
is no period of grace for road tax. You have advance warning when the tax is
due to expire, either six months or twelve months. You should make
arrangements to re tax your car within plenty of time of the expiration date
of your current tax disc."

http://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q370.htm

So if you post on the 29th they can automatically issue a fine on the first
of the month, I don't know personally if they are as sharp as this, but they
have the right...

They've really tightened up on all this and I can only assume the primary
reason is to gather more income from fining the unwary 8-(

Greg

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:42:28 +0100, Richard Brookman wrote:

> I would have done this myself, but our rural Post Office disappeared
> about five years ago.

Ah... Hopefully the PO in the town will never close, it's also the local
delivery office. The two sub-post offices in the villages struggle
though, I can see one or both of those closing at least the PO part if
not the shop.

> || Was suprised to see no requirement to show an
> || insurance certificate, only the MOT (which is an electronic one).
>
> They can now check you are insured electronically too.

So why do I have to show my electronic MOT? Seems a bit daft but maybe
the system hasn't caught up...

> Unlikely, as it says Make: Land Rover, Model: Jeep. I think even the
> woodenest top could work that one out!

I wouldn't like to bank on it. Though getting the make right is the most
important bit.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 00:08:27 +0100, Greg wrote:

> You have advance warning when the tax is due to expire, either six
> months or twelve months. You should make arrangements to re tax your
> car within plenty of time of the expiration date of your current tax
> disc."

But you only have 13, 15, or 16 day window. What do you do if you are on
holiday, abroad, for the last fortnight of Febuary?

> So if you post on the 29th they can automatically issue a fine on the
> first of the month, I don't know personally if they are as sharp as
> this, but they have the right...

And you have the right to contest it (I hope...) and go to court where
the "reasonable man" would laugh at plod for being so fecking stupid.
"Failure to display" looks like becoming a non-offense if/when the
computer becomes the definative record. Think of the money they can save
not printing expensive pretty bits of paper with all manner of anti
forgery stuff...

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:18:16 +0100, Simon Isaacs
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Still, there is a good reason why I have my own eggs, and why Xmas
> Dinner will consist of corn fed cockerel, will I will select from my
> flock on Xmas Eve......

heh - you must live in a location more rural than I. Keeping a cockerel
would likely get us an ASBO

> Have even changed back to the local
> butchers for meat, bit more expensive, but at least the stuff has
> colour and flavour...

indeed - not forgetting to mention quality, variety and hygene - then
there's the social aspect of it. The local independent butcher is (IME)
always a happy cheerful soul compared to his colleagues in the
rack-it-high-and-cover-it-in-ploywrap trade.

--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8

Greg wrote:

|| "Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote
|| in message
||
||| To return to the original topic, since my rural post office shut
||| years ago, and getting a tax disc would involve time off work
||| and/or a hassle parking the car and a long wait in a queue, I'd
||| rather do mine online and take the tiny risk that it may be lost on
||| the way.
||
|| Fortunately ours is still open so I do as much as I can to help it,
|| but the government seems hell bent on making it unprofitable, last
|| year they took away their right to even hand out passport packs so
|| you have to go to the nearest town to pick one up, how stupid is
|| that!.
||
|| Greg

Very stupid. No arguments there. It's all deliberate, like when they told
all the pensioners that they had to have their pensions paid into a bank
account, and now they say that since so many pensioners have their money
paid into a bank account, there's no need for the post office. If it wasn't
such a good old-fashioned Labour Govt I'd think they were in cahoots with
the banks. Oh hang on, what about those casinos? Nah, coincidence.

--
Rich
==============================

Take out the obvious to email me.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

> But you only have 13, 15, or 16 day window. What do you do if you are on
> holiday, abroad, for the last fortnight of Febuary?

Presumably you have to SORN it before you go if you want to be sure.

> And you have the right to contest it (I hope...)

Assuming the law is as the police site says then on what grounds can
you contest it?, you have no grace period and have neither paid nor
declared SORN by the due date, so you have broken the law it's that
black and white. Money in the post is not money paid to the recipient,
as my credit card company was only too happy to charge me £12 for last
month 8-(.

> the "reasonable man" would laugh at plod for being so fecking stupid.

But the magistrate, operating the government's latest tax collection
scheme, is going to follow the letter. He has no power to discard a law
he may personally think is stupid, and if he tried he'd be in big
trouble.

> "Failure to display" looks like becoming a non-offense if/when the
> computer becomes the definative record. Think of the money they can save
> not printing expensive pretty bits of paper with all manner of anti
> forgery stuff...

Think of the money they can lose by not fining people for failure to
display... Anyway, until it changes you can be automatically fined on
the first of the month as the TV advertising campaign points out.

Greg

On or around Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:58:20 +0100, "Greg"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>To quote a government site "Any vehicle used or kept on a public road in the
>United Kingdom is required, by law, to display a valid vehicle tax disc" so
>you can get nicked for not displaying regardless of the fact you have paid
>for it and are waiting for the post

yeah, but I doubt anyone gets done for that in isolation. They might add
that to "no MOT" and other offences, perhaps. But if everything else was in
order and the tax disc in the post, then I can't see it getting far in
court.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Too Busy: Your mind is like a motorway. Sometimes it can be jammed by
too much traffic. Avoid the jams by never using your mind on a
Bank Holiday weekend.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

On or around Mon, 23 Oct 2006 08:45:50 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>Very stupid. No arguments there. It's all deliberate, like when they told
>all the pensioners that they had to have their pensions paid into a bank
>account, and now they say that since so many pensioners have their money
>paid into a bank account, there's no need for the post office. If it wasn't
>such a good old-fashioned Labour Govt I'd think they were in cahoots with
>the banks. Oh hang on, what about those casinos? Nah, coincidence.

and invented the post office card accounts for those who had no bank account
or didn't want their pension paid into the bank... beginning of 2004. And
what are they just trying to get rid of?

yep. Post Office card accounts. mad.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Too Busy: Your mind is like a motorway. Sometimes it can be jammed by
too much traffic. Avoid the jams by never using your mind on a
Bank Holiday weekend.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

Austin Shackles wrote:
> On or around Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:58:20 +0100, "Greg"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>
>>To quote a government site "Any vehicle used or kept on a public road in the
>>United Kingdom is required, by law, to display a valid vehicle tax disc" so
>>you can get nicked for not displaying regardless of the fact you have paid
>>for it and are waiting for the post
>
>
> yeah, but I doubt anyone gets done for that in isolation. They might add
> that to "no MOT" and other offences, perhaps. But if everything else was in
> order and the tax disc in the post, then I can't see it getting far in
> court.

Don't bank on it. That's just the sort of petty, nit-picking 'offence'
that they seem to delight in prosecuting these days. And don't expect
anything better if it goes to court.

On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:15:53 +0100, Dougal
<DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:

>>
>> yeah, but I doubt anyone gets done for that in isolation. They might add
>> that to "no MOT" and other offences, perhaps. But if everything else was in
>> order and the tax disc in the post, then I can't see it getting far in
>> court.
>
>Don't bank on it. That's just the sort of petty, nit-picking 'offence'
>that they seem to delight in prosecuting these days. And don't expect
>anything better if it goes to court.

A friend of mine tells a story of a gentleman he was having words with
who "failed the attitude test"; lippy, rude and abusive.

My friend then went through his motor with a fine-toothed comb, and
eventually had him prosecuted for having no windscreen washer fluid,
which is, apparently an offence.

Petty and nit-picking possibly, but in the circumstances justifiable,
and, I thought, funny.

David

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:36:22 +0100, rads
<[email protected]> wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:15:53 +0100, Dougal
> <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> yeah, but I doubt anyone gets done for that in isolation. They might
>>> add
>>> that to "no MOT" and other offences, perhaps. But if everything else
>>> was in
>>> order and the tax disc in the post, then I can't see it getting far in
>>> court.
>>
>> Don't bank on it. That's just the sort of petty, nit-picking 'offence'
>> that they seem to delight in prosecuting these days. And don't expect
>> anything better if it goes to court.
>
> A friend of mine tells a story of a gentleman he was having words with
> who "failed the attitude test"; lippy, rude and abusive.
>
> My friend then went through his motor with a fine-toothed comb, and
> eventually had him prosecuted for having no windscreen washer fluid,
> which is, apparently an offence.
>
> Petty and nit-picking possibly, but in the circumstances justifiable,
> and, I thought, funny.

Same rules apply to those 'friends' too. They do seem to drive around
with poorly managed vehicles, many with broken headlamp glass if one is
ever unfortunate enough to be close enough to observe.

Just a heads-up - if roadside negotiations have failed you can always
score a point back.

Does it do any good? no, of course not. But then you have to consider
the attitude of the nit-picker and make your own judgement call. Some
would call it revenge, others simply karma.

FWIW - never been pulled in the 110. Only once stopped in a road block -
looking for witnesses to that murder on Twickenham Green a while back.

--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8