Anyone know how to change the suspension air bags on a P38?

Gonna get a full set of the air bags as mine are looking a bit tired, well very tired! I'm fitting new
air dryer & filters to the suspension air pump so have to deflate the system anyway. I can't see fitting
the bags as being hard, or indeed the comp stuff. I have worked on that kind of pressure before & know
the dangers, I'm after more of a set of do's & don'ts P38 style!!

How do I deflate & re-inflate without testbook etc? I think the systems runs at 10 bar, not too silly
etc.

Anyone got any ideas?

Nige
--

Subaru WRX
Range Rover 4.6 HSE (The Tank!)
110 Hi Cap (Ben)

'"Opinions are like arseholes, everyones got one"

Nige nearly made me spill my Shiraz on 19/05/2006 18:34 by writing:
> Gonna get a full set of the air bags as mine are looking a bit tired, well very tired! I'm fitting new
> air dryer & filters to the suspension air pump so have to deflate the system anyway. I can't see fitting
> the bags as being hard, or indeed the comp stuff. I have worked on that kind of pressure before & know
> the dangers, I'm after more of a set of do's & don'ts P38 style!!
>
> How do I deflate & re-inflate without testbook etc? I think the systems runs at 10 bar, not too silly
> etc.
>
> Anyone got any ideas?

Set the system to access level to reduce the amount of air in the bags.
Lift the axle to get clearance to remove wheel for access.
Slowly lift the chassis with a jack (don't over extend the spring).
This will reduce the spring pressure a little.
Depress the collect and pull the air hose out. Don't try this without
supporting the chassis to avoid any sudden movement.

After replacement, lower the chassis a little, but not right to the bump
stops. Let the system inflate and check it goes up and down normally.

Later, rinse and repeat, as it says on the bottle.

There is a SMALL chance you can damage the collect when you pull the air
hose out under pressure. I've never heard of it happening, but wear eye
protection just in case bits of collet come flying out.

Andy

Andy Cunningham wrote:
> Nige nearly made me spill my Shiraz on 19/05/2006 18:34 by writing:
>> Gonna get a full set of the air bags as mine are looking a bit tired, well very tired!
>> I'm fitting new air dryer & filters to the suspension air pump so have to deflate the
>> system anyway. I can't see fitting the bags as being hard, or indeed the comp stuff. I
>> have worked on that kind of pressure before & know the dangers, I'm after more of a
>> set of do's & don'ts P38 style!!
>>
>> How do I deflate & re-inflate without testbook etc? I think the systems runs at 10
>> bar, not too silly etc.
>>
>> Anyone got any ideas?
>
> Set the system to access level to reduce the amount of air in the bags.
> Lift the axle to get clearance to remove wheel for access.
> Slowly lift the chassis with a jack (don't over extend the spring).
> This will reduce the spring pressure a little.
> Depress the collect and pull the air hose out. Don't try this without
> supporting the chassis to avoid any sudden movement.
>
> After replacement, lower the chassis a little, but not right to the bump
> stops. Let the system inflate and check it goes up and down normally.
>
> Later, rinse and repeat, as it says on the bottle.
>
> There is a SMALL chance you can damage the collect when you pull the air
> hose out under pressure. I've never heard of it happening, but wear eye
> protection just in case bits of collet come flying out.
>
> Andy


Cheers Andy, you or anyone else got any experience of the Arnott industries bags? Either the S3 version
or just replacement bellows?

Cheers

Nige

--

Subaru WRX
Range Rover 4.6 HSE (The Tank!)

We might be going on a summer holiday, the Greece Ball rally!!!!

Nige nearly made me spill my Shiraz on 20/05/2006 09:50 by writing:
>
> Cheers Andy, you or anyone else got any experience of the Arnott industries bags? Either the S3 version
> or just replacement bellows?

I've fitted them to a mates P38A. Seem OK to me.

Andy

Andy Cunningham wrote:
> Nige nearly made me spill my Shiraz on 20/05/2006 09:50 by writing:
>>
>> Cheers Andy, you or anyone else got any experience of the Arnott industries bags?
>> Either the S3 version or just replacement bellows?
>
> I've fitted them to a mates P38A. Seem OK to me.
>
> Andy


For my uses i cant justify the amount extra!! I just ordered some OEM ones from mIsland 4x4. £62 each
isnt too bad really.

Cheers for the help.

Nige

--

Subaru WRX
Range Rover 4.6 HSE (The Tank!)

We might be going on a summer holiday, the Greece Ball rally!!!!

Nige nearly made me spill my Shiraz on 20/05/2006 10:39 by writing:

> For my uses i cant justify the amount extra!! I just ordered some OEM ones from mIsland 4x4. £62 each
> isnt too bad really.

I really don't think it makes a lot of difference. At the time the
Arnotts were the cheaper option, IIRC.

My own car has OEM replacements, because I didn't have time to do the
job myself (or the inclination, without a garage to work in in winter),
so got the local independent to fit them, and their policy is to fit LR
parts unless requested to do otherwise.

On the subject of garages, does anyone know of anywhere around
Sandhurst/Bracknell/Wokingham/Camberley, other than those offered by the
local council?

Andy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nige" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.landrover
Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: Anyone know how to change the suspension air bags on a P38?


> Andy Cunningham wrote:
>> Nige nearly made me spill my Shiraz on 19/05/2006 18:34 by writing:
>>> Gonna get a full set of the air bags as mine are looking a bit tired,
>>> well very tired!
>>> I'm fitting new air dryer & filters to the suspension air pump so have
>>> to deflate the
>>> system anyway. I can't see fitting the bags as being hard, or indeed the
>>> comp stuff. I
>>> have worked on that kind of pressure before & know the dangers, I'm
>>> after more of a
>>> set of do's & don'ts P38 style!!
>>>
>>> How do I deflate & re-inflate without testbook etc? I think the systems
>>> runs at 10
>>> bar, not too silly etc.
>>>
>>> Anyone got any ideas?
>>
>> Set the system to access level to reduce the amount of air in the bags.
>> Lift the axle to get clearance to remove wheel for access.
>> Slowly lift the chassis with a jack (don't over extend the spring).
>> This will reduce the spring pressure a little.
>> Depress the collect and pull the air hose out. Don't try this without
>> supporting the chassis to avoid any sudden movement.
>>
>> After replacement, lower the chassis a little, but not right to the bump
>> stops. Let the system inflate and check it goes up and down normally.
>>
>> Later, rinse and repeat, as it says on the bottle.
>>
>> There is a SMALL chance you can damage the collect when you pull the air
>> hose out under pressure. I've never heard of it happening, but wear eye
>> protection just in case bits of collet come flying out.
>>
>> Andy
>

Or you can bleed the air tank...
http://rangerovers.net/repairdetails/airsuspension/airspreplace.html#depressurize

Sounds a bit safer to me.
Lots of other info on the procedure on this page.



>
> Cheers Andy, you or anyone else got any experience of the Arnott
> industries bags? Either the S3 version or just replacement bellows?
>

Yes, can someone PLEASE comment on the ride quality with the S3 bags- an
improvement or otherwise?


Ta

Nige,

What year is your P38? For the first couple of years of manufacture
they used springs with ally pistons and they retaining pins tend to
seize in - on the fronts a large crow bar is all that is needed, but
on the rears they are an absolute b*d to do. I gave up with the rears
on mine and took them to my local LR specialist - he admitted it was
a nightmare job, and even on his four-poster he spent half the morning
trying to remove the pins. So - if you check your springs and see if
you have the ally ones you will probably need to order a new set of
retaining pins, if you have the plastic ones (they are black) it will
be a much easier job.

I deflated the springs on mine by just slightly pulling the air hose
out of the top of the bag and very slowly releasing the air in them.
I'm not saying that is the best way to do it, but it worked for me!
Of course, I had the axle and chassis supported at the time I did it.
You can just about get away with not removing the wheel arch liner
(front) On the drivers side, bend it out of the way to get at the
top clips, and on the passenger side you can access the clips from
the top with a large screwdriver(s!).

Re-inflation is quite easy, although mine proved to be a bit of a pig
as it refused to re-inflate the springs, but after 10 mins of running
the engine and a re-start they re-inflated straight away. Do NOT allow
the springs to take any load if they are not inflated as it can damage
them. You may need to drop the chassis down a bit to get the system
to inflate the springs, but like I said, don't let the springs take
any load until they are inflated. Personally I'd do each corner
individually, but I know other people who do them in pairs and have
not had any problem. Finally, don't extend the axle too far from the
chassis as you may cause an out of range on the EAS ECU and have to
have it reset!

Matt

Nige wrote:
> Gonna get a full set of the air bags as mine are looking a bit tired, well very tired! I'm fitting new
> air dryer & filters to the suspension air pump so have to deflate the system anyway. I can't see fitting
> the bags as being hard, or indeed the comp stuff. I have worked on that kind of pressure before & know
> the dangers, I'm after more of a set of do's & don'ts P38 style!!
>
> How do I deflate & re-inflate without testbook etc? I think the systems runs at 10 bar, not too silly
> etc.
>
> Anyone got any ideas?
>
> Nige
> --
>
> Subaru WRX
> Range Rover 4.6 HSE (The Tank!)
> 110 Hi Cap (Ben)
>
> '"Opinions are like arseholes, everyones got one"
>
>

Matthew Maddock wrote:
> Nige,
>
> What year is your P38? For the first couple of years of manufacture
> they used springs with ally pistons and they retaining pins tend to
> seize in - on the fronts a large crow bar is all that is needed, but
> on the rears they are an absolute b*d to do. I gave up with the rears
> on mine and took them to my local LR specialist - he admitted it was
> a nightmare job, and even on his four-poster he spent half the morning
> trying to remove the pins. So - if you check your springs and see if
> you have the ally ones you will probably need to order a new set of
> retaining pins, if you have the plastic ones (they are black) it will
> be a much easier job.
>
> I deflated the springs on mine by just slightly pulling the air hose
> out of the top of the bag and very slowly releasing the air in them.
> I'm not saying that is the best way to do it, but it worked for me!
> Of course, I had the axle and chassis supported at the time I did it.
> You can just about get away with not removing the wheel arch liner
> (front) On the drivers side, bend it out of the way to get at the
> top clips, and on the passenger side you can access the clips from
> the top with a large screwdriver(s!).
>
> Re-inflation is quite easy, although mine proved to be a bit of a pig
> as it refused to re-inflate the springs, but after 10 mins of running
> the engine and a re-start they re-inflated straight away. Do NOT allow
> the springs to take any load if they are not inflated as it can damage
> them. You may need to drop the chassis down a bit to get the system
> to inflate the springs, but like I said, don't let the springs take
> any load until they are inflated. Personally I'd do each corner
> individually, but I know other people who do them in pairs and have
> not had any problem. Finally, don't extend the axle too far from the
> chassis as you may cause an out of range on the EAS ECU and have to
> have it reset!
>
> Matt

Mine are alloy, I might get my garage man to do it if they are stuck!

Nige wrote:
> Matthew Maddock wrote:
>
>>Nige,
>>
>>What year is your P38? For the first couple of years of manufacture
>>they used springs with ally pistons and they retaining pins tend to
>>seize in - on the fronts a large crow bar is all that is needed, but
>>on the rears they are an absolute b*d to do. I gave up with the rears
>>on mine and took them to my local LR specialist - he admitted it was
>>a nightmare job, and even on his four-poster he spent half the morning
>>trying to remove the pins. So - if you check your springs and see if
>>you have the ally ones you will probably need to order a new set of
>>retaining pins, if you have the plastic ones (they are black) it will
>>be a much easier job.
>>
>>I deflated the springs on mine by just slightly pulling the air hose
>>out of the top of the bag and very slowly releasing the air in them.
>>I'm not saying that is the best way to do it, but it worked for me!
>>Of course, I had the axle and chassis supported at the time I did it.
>>You can just about get away with not removing the wheel arch liner
>>(front) On the drivers side, bend it out of the way to get at the
>>top clips, and on the passenger side you can access the clips from
>>the top with a large screwdriver(s!).
>>
>>Re-inflation is quite easy, although mine proved to be a bit of a pig
>>as it refused to re-inflate the springs, but after 10 mins of running
>>the engine and a re-start they re-inflated straight away. Do NOT allow
>>the springs to take any load if they are not inflated as it can damage
>>them. You may need to drop the chassis down a bit to get the system
>>to inflate the springs, but like I said, don't let the springs take
>>any load until they are inflated. Personally I'd do each corner
>>individually, but I know other people who do them in pairs and have
>>not had any problem. Finally, don't extend the axle too far from the
>>chassis as you may cause an out of range on the EAS ECU and have to
>>have it reset!
>>
>>Matt
>
>
> Mine are alloy, I might get my garage man to do it if they are stuck!
>
>
Mine clips stuck solid so I got my local independent guys to change
them, £100 well spent to save the aggro. I fitted OEM springs and there
was a marked ride difference from the old worn springs. If yours have
been leaking for any time then your compressor may be knackered like
mine was. I got a rebuild kit from
http://rover-renovations.com/webstore/index.html. The piston ring in
mine was falling to bits and I am amazed it managed to keep my system
pressurised at all in the state it was in. The recon kit was easy to fit
and the compressor hardly runs now. Just got to get the new engine in now!!

gaz
--

1998 V8 HSE P38
1989 V8 RR Classic

If It Ain’t Broken... Fix It ‘Til It Is

>
> Mine are alloy, I might get my garage man to do it if they are stuck!
>
>

It would be worth trying to front pins first - my O/S was solid, but
the N/S just pulled straight out! You can do that without having to
take anything apart - just remove the bolt behind the spring that
holds to pin in. However the rears are not much fun as they have pins
top and bottom and are more prone to corrosion than the fronts -
personally I wouldn't touch them - get it straight into the garage for
those as you will probably be there all day trying to do it yourself,
and most likely get very ****ed off in the process!

Matt.

Gazza wrote:
> Nige wrote:
>> Matthew Maddock wrote:
>>
>>> Nige,
>>>
>>> What year is your P38? For the first couple of years of manufacture
>>> they used springs with ally pistons and they retaining pins tend to
>>> seize in - on the fronts a large crow bar is all that is needed, but
>>> on the rears they are an absolute b*d to do. I gave up with the rears
>>> on mine and took them to my local LR specialist - he admitted it was
>>> a nightmare job, and even on his four-poster he spent half the morning
>>> trying to remove the pins. So - if you check your springs and see if
>>> you have the ally ones you will probably need to order a new set of
>>> retaining pins, if you have the plastic ones (they are black) it will
>>> be a much easier job.
>>>
>>> I deflated the springs on mine by just slightly pulling the air hose
>>> out of the top of the bag and very slowly releasing the air in them.
>>> I'm not saying that is the best way to do it, but it worked for me!
>>> Of course, I had the axle and chassis supported at the time I did it.
>>> You can just about get away with not removing the wheel arch liner
>>> (front) On the drivers side, bend it out of the way to get at the
>>> top clips, and on the passenger side you can access the clips from
>>> the top with a large screwdriver(s!).
>>>
>>> Re-inflation is quite easy, although mine proved to be a bit of a pig
>>> as it refused to re-inflate the springs, but after 10 mins of running
>>> the engine and a re-start they re-inflated straight away. Do NOT allow
>>> the springs to take any load if they are not inflated as it can damage
>>> them. You may need to drop the chassis down a bit to get the system
>>> to inflate the springs, but like I said, don't let the springs take
>>> any load until they are inflated. Personally I'd do each corner
>>> individually, but I know other people who do them in pairs and have
>>> not had any problem. Finally, don't extend the axle too far from the
>>> chassis as you may cause an out of range on the EAS ECU and have to
>>> have it reset!
>>>
>>> Matt
>>
>>
>> Mine are alloy, I might get my garage man to do it if they are stuck!
>>
>>
> Mine clips stuck solid so I got my local independent guys to change
> them, £100 well spent to save the aggro. I fitted OEM springs and there
> was a marked ride difference from the old worn springs. If yours have
> been leaking for any time then your compressor may be knackered like
> mine was. I got a rebuild kit from
> http://rover-renovations.com/webstore/index.html. The piston ring in
> mine was falling to bits and I am amazed it managed to keep my system
> pressurised at all in the state it was in. The recon kit was easy to fit
> and the compressor hardly runs now. Just got to get the new engine in now!!
>
> gaz


The beast is back on the road Tuesday!! Cant wait, just the heater O rings to do then!!!!

Nige

--

Subaru WRX
Range Rover 4.6 HSE (The Tank!)

We might be going on a summer holiday, the Greece Ball rally!!!!

Matthew Maddock wrote:
>> Mine are alloy, I might get my garage man to do it if they are stuck!
>>
>>
>
> It would be worth trying to front pins first - my O/S was solid, but
> the N/S just pulled straight out! You can do that without having to
> take anything apart - just remove the bolt behind the spring that
> holds to pin in. However the rears are not much fun as they have pins
> top and bottom and are more prone to corrosion than the fronts -
> personally I wouldn't touch them - get it straight into the garage for
> those as you will probably be there all day trying to do it yourself,
> and most likely get very ****ed off in the process!
>
> Matt.


OK garage it is then!! I can handle hard jobs, but silly hard jobs go to the garage!!

Cheers for that mate!

Nige


--

Subaru WRX
Range Rover 4.6 HSE (The Tank!)

We might be going on a summer holiday, the Greece Ball rally!!!!

> OK garage it is then!! I can handle hard jobs, but silly hard jobs go to the garage!!
>
> Cheers for that mate!

NP, don't forget to get a set of new pins from the LR garage. Believe
it or not my local dealer didn't keep them in stock and they had to be
ordered! If the old ones are seized they will literally have to be
snapped/smashed/cut out.

Matt

Matthew Maddock wrote:
>> OK garage it is then!! I can handle hard jobs, but silly hard jobs go to the garage!!
>>
>> Cheers for that mate!
>
> NP, don't forget to get a set of new pins from the LR garage. Believe
> it or not my local dealer didn't keep them in stock and they had to be
> ordered! If the old ones are seized they will literally have to be
> snapped/smashed/cut out.
>
> Matt

The joys of P38 ownership!!

BTW, i got some leather dye of eBay for the armrests, it is bloody superb. If you need some i can give
you the blokes details. Some on eBay are shoe polish ffs!!! This is the pucker stuff & matched 100%
(after i cleaned it!!)

On this note, can anyone recommend me a good leather cleaner??

Nige

--

Subaru WRX
Range Rover 4.6 HSE (The Tank!)

We might be going on a summer holiday, the Greece Ball rally!!!!

> On this note, can anyone recommend me a good leather cleaner??

I used the Autoglym stuff and was quite impressed, but I've not used
anything else to compare it with so I'm not sure I can speak with that
much authority on the subject. Amazing how much crap comes off the
seats when you do it.

Matt.

Natalie Drest nearly made me spill my Shiraz on 21/05/2006 02:51 by writing:

>
> Or you can bleed the air tank...
> http://rangerovers.net/repairdetails/airsuspension/airspreplace.html#depressurize
>

That doesn't deflate the springs, though.

Andy