Another td4 starting problem

Hi all I have a problem with our td4 Freelander 1 2006 for some time it has not been the best of starters for some time, but is getting worse.
It seems to have a problem with the diesel dropping back to the tank (so air getting in somewhere. If you just get in and try to start it it will try to start , maybe run for 5 seconds,and can take 6 or 7 times to start, if you wait for the pump to cut out, it will run for about 5 seconds then cut out but will start on the second try, it runs well, a bit of white smoke when it starts but think that is just diesel that has been injected into cylinder at low pressure. if engine has been off up to about a hour it will start first time, if it has been off all day it will be harder to start
I have had a look around and there are no diesel leaks I can see, I have changed the fuel filter and all looks good there, I can hear air coming out when the diesel lift pump runs, which I think is normal some where under air inlet manifold, could what ever lets the air out let air in when the engine is turned off?
I have taken the injector leak back pipes off and if you turn the pump on diesel comes out of the return pipe to the filter at a good rate, if you block this off now diesel comes out of the leak offs for any of the injectors.
I have a cheap fault code reader and it shows nothing any ideas?

Sounds like the pressure regulator O rings are passing fuel. They need to hold tight, or fuel pressure takes ages to build.
When it doesn't start, do you just hold the starter until is fires, or keep stopping after a few seconds?

Nodge68 said:

Sounds like the pressure regulator O rings are passing fuel. They need to hold tight, or fuel pressure takes ages to build.
When it doesn't start, do you just hold the starter until is fires, or keep stopping after a few seconds?

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Seems to start better if you hold the starter until it fires

Nodge68 said:

Sounds like the pressure regulator O rings are passing fuel. They need to hold tight, or fuel pressure takes ages to build.
When it doesn't start, do you just hold the starter until is fires, or keep stopping after a few seconds?

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I have seen a video of someone changing that on utube I had planned to have a closer look at that, tried to buy a repair kit but the people I was ordering other bits at the time did not have them listed, I will have a look for a kit

Ian M in France said:

Seems to start better if you hold the starter until it fires

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If that's the case, then it does point to a slow build up of rail pressure, the primary cause being leaking regulator O rings.

Are you sure the leak off pipes are a snug fit they dont always show a leak but let air into the system had to do them on my van a couple of weeks ago same problem and the pipes were perished at the ends all sorted now...

Shippers said:

Are you sure the leak off pipes are a snug fit they dont always show a leak but let air into the system had to do them on my van a couple of weeks ago same problem and the pipes were perished at the ends all sorted now...

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They all look good might try taking the leak off pipe off that goes back to filter blocking it off and seeing if it drops over night

Ian M in France said:

have taken the injector leak back pipes off and if you turn the pump on diesel comes out of the return pipe to the filter at a good rate, if you block this off now diesel comes out of the leak offs for any of the injectors.
I have a cheap fault code reader and it shows nothing any ideas?

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That does not show anything it just means youv'e put pressure on pushfit rubber pipes that have no clips on them...

Ian M in France said:

They all look good might try taking the leak off pipe off that goes back to filter blocking it off and seeing if it drops over night

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That wont work because if they are letting air in fuel drains back down to injector pump which is lower than injectors thats why you crank for ever to build up fuel to injectors the spill pipes could be draining fuel from injectors as I had in my van starts on 2-3 turns of engine now not 20-40 seconds of cranking after being left overnight...it when started in morning would fire up perfectly all day long but not the next day...

Shippers said:

That wont work because if they are letting air in fuel drains back down to injector pump which is lower than injectors thats why you crank for ever to build up fuel to injectors the spill pipes could be draining fuel from injectors as I had in my van starts on 2-3 turns of engine now not 20-40 seconds of cranking after being left overnight...it when started in morning would fire up perfectly all day long but not the next day...

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I thought that the air would get into the leak off pipes then as the low pressure pump pumps diesel up the return leak off (when engine not running but low pressure pump is turned on) this would allow air into the low pressure side when all turned off? but this is not really my thing

Ian M in France said:

I thought that the air would get into the leak off pipes then as the low pressure pump pumps diesel up the return leak off (when engine not running but low pressure pump is turned on) this would allow air into the low pressure side when all turned off? but this is not really my thing

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Other thing is as the engine does start for around 2 to 5 seconds on first turn of the key I would think there is not a leak in high pressure side but in low pressure side and the first start is fuel left in high pressure side?

Have looked at repair kit for pressure regulator ("o" ring and seal) I can buy them off ebay UK but on a £12 item there is I think about £8 postage and £7 import duty to pay, if I can not find one here I will get one on order

Ian M in France said:

I thought that the air would get into the leak off pipes then as the low pressure pump pumps diesel up the return leak off (when engine not running but low pressure pump is turned on) this would allow air into the low pressure side when all turned off? but this is not really my thing

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My understsnding is air into leak off pipes means injector pump needs to be primed from what ever pump supplies fuel to it as it's lower than injectors...yes I know fuel filter on some engines are higher than injection pump but only going on my Ford 1.8tdi that wouldnt start easily till I replaced spill hoses with good quality ones...

ordered repair kit for pressure regulator today

fitted kit at the weekend it is better but did not starts first time this morning but did second time, could take 4 to 8 times before so can live with that, also bought a cheap high pressure sensor and the repair cable as planned to do that, tighten it to spec and it leaked badly, so tightened it a bit more which stopped the leak, it then worked for about 10 min in all stopped to to put all the covers on and it would not start, it started after a bit but would not tick over after about 2-3 min it would tick over, but would nearly stall then come back to life and set on tick over, refitted old one and all went back to life, money well spent? one thing I did notice was when it was leaking(pressure sensor) it started first time every time maybe it let air out of the system? will wait and see what happens for a bit