ALRC Project

Dan_Trials said:

Wow excellent build man, really like that a lot!

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Thanks for the comment Dan

jai_landrover said:

We spent yesterday after the team recovery trying to adjust a seriously bodged handbrake took several attempts and as nothing fitted or worked you couldn't even get the handbrake drum off if you wanted to without lowering the gearbox mounts as it hits the A frame x member!!

After that I want my old trils hack to be simple and easy
As ever love the work owl!!

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Oh dear that motor sounds dire. The times I have seen vehicles fail at scrutineering for silly things like hand brake don't work or vehicles set off on the first lap and they are misfiring. All that way to the national and can't play.Hope he gets sorted.
I have seen a few bad ideas on trialers, once saw a 3/4 box seat box frame that was welded in and had too be cut out to do the clutch.
First thing to think about when fabricating. is it safe. 2nd is it reliable, 3rd can I repair it in a field between laps and 4th how much does it weigh.

Couldn't agree more. I don't think I'll be comping my 80 inch but I want it to that standard so it meets all regs. They were super hot on the wheel arch regs and the mud flap 40mm either side of tyre wall regs. This dodgy handbrake is on a motor that was sold on to someone else so I don't know who did it but I'd be ashamed if it was my work. I might offer to help the driver out and replaced the wire rope and mini shackle with a length of 4mm strip or a some rod at least its better than he has although I'd be ordering a new cable and relocating the lever myself. We had this discussion with my bro earlier we're pulling the 80 inch apart and wondering how far to go. Its pretty much start again we've seen so much not done right it needs sorting again now which is a pain but do and will keep my not playing for alot longer but do it once properly and it should be reliable and last.

Still an old hack tho compared to your lovely piece of engineering.

Truley impressed OWL.

I wish I had the skills to build one too. I have always drooled over the hand crafted motors but to havea full photo history of the build shows just how much work goes into these beasties.

I know I am going to get flamed for this but I see the engine is a V6 so what is it from ?

In my days there were only 4 and 8 pots

Kv6 freelander lump and Honda rover hybrid i think

LOL you won't get flamed. The Engine is from a MG ZS 180 but will get rebuilt. The Honda units are different and from Rover 827's.

This is a KV6 in a dolomite sound nice and 300bhp Triumph Dolomite: Rally Heb 2011, Castle Grounds - YouTube

That Dolomite is awsome.

Can't help wondering if your V6 is ALRC compliant though as I thought they drew the line before before the Rover 827 as the cars had diverged so much from LR. I thought that only engines fitted by LR were allowed. Not that I have been bothered to read the green book.

Like I said to Jai, when I first joined an ARC club (as it was in the '90s) I had a Perkins engined 109 that I was not allowed to trial in. Yet when I shoved a V8 in I could, still see no sense in that.

I just love you exhaust system, I have always been fascinated by tuned manifold pipes, ironically ever since I used to have to keep welding up the Perkins manifold on a monthly basis.

The KV6 was fitted in the Freelander but was first fitted in the Rover 800 in 1996 so is allowed in ALRC clubs, A few chaps are using them but most seem to prefer the Honda unit.
Personally I think the KV has more potential as it is the same as the K4 and much research and development has been done on the K4 from a performance perspective and what works on the K4 will work on the KV hence the diameter and length of the exhaust primaries. Also the heads on the KV are very good, they have larger valves with larger raised ports and flow much better than the K4 head so much so that when they produced the VHPD K4 they just copied the KV head, same valves and ports on the VVC too.
It might get throttle bodies but haven't decided as yet.

proper trials motors look like they have been built by a drunk farmer with a arc welder and scaffolding and run a v8 with half its cam lobs missing , so mr owl I think your project is miss named

owl said:

The KV6 was fitted in the Freelander but was first fitted in the Rover 800 in 1996 so is allowed in ALRC clubs, A few chaps are using them but most seem to prefer the Honda unit.
Personally I think the KV has more potential as it is the same as the K4 and much research and development has been done on the K4 from a performance perspective and what works on the K4 will work on the KV hence the diameter and length of the exhaust primaries. Also the heads on the KV are very good, they have larger valves with larger raised ports and flow much better than the K4 head so much so that when they produced the VHPD K4 they just copied the KV head, same valves and ports on the VVC too.
It might get throttle bodies but haven't decided as yet.

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I take it you chose v6 for compact power and weight ?

pressbrake said:

proper trials motors look like they have been built by a drunk farmer with a arc welder and scaffolding and run a v8 with half its cam lobs missing , so mr owl I think your project is miss named

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If it meets regs what's wrong with that?? Looking good never won races in fact there are many a farmers motor you'd struggle to compete with.

The thing that a lot of people forget is the alrc is and always has been very very good at is grass roots Motorsport. Getting the youngsters up from trialling minintractors to tyro to rtv and then taking part in their scaffold (scaffold actually exceeds minimum spec) clad comp motor. Something the bigger clubs simply do not have.

Owls motor is goin to be one of the best on the circuit for sure!!!

Don't be fooled into thinking the old farmer in his tatty motor smoking a pipe is rubbish he's probably one of the better drivers!

Thats a nice looking lump. Makes sense now I wonderred if the freelander and disco engines would start appearing in triallers.

Looking forward to seing you motor finished and at next years nationals.

pressbrake said:

proper trials motors look like they have been built by a drunk farmer with a arc welder and scaffolding and run a v8 with half its cam lobs missing , so mr owl I think your project is miss named

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LOL I know where you are coming from there are some very battered motors.
I think it is the same in many grass roots motor clubs, having said that there are some very smart and well thought out trialers about and the general standard is improving.

This is a Honda V6 powered comper, Ohlins shocks



Nice little P&D V8 80 coiler



and Max traction V8 80

200tdi ayre said:

I take it you chose v6 for compact power and weight ?

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The engine and box are so short that it can sit very low and far back in the chassis, Rover V8's have to be high to clear the oil pump over the front axle .

Why do you all favour petrol engines over diesel engines? Is it just a power thing?

Would have thought diesels are better for water, etc.?

I keep toying with the idea of building a off-road toy, but, would want to go the diesel route as i understand them a bit better...

owl said:

The engine and box are so short that it can sit very low and far back in the chassis, Rover V8's have to be high to clear the oil pump over the front axle .

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Remote oil and dry sump

Diesels are fine, there are classes for them so don't be put off. Best thing to do with a rotten disco TDI and would make an inexpensive competition motor.

Section L - Regulations Applicable to all Competition Events.
This section contains items of an operational nature only.
L.1. VEHICLE CLASSES.
Grouped mainly by physical size and suspension type.
L.1.1. Trials
Vehicles are categorised on wheelbase and suspension type and divided into Standard and Modified.

Class Suspension Type Wheelbase Range Applicability
Standard
1 Leaf Up to 84 80 only
2 Leaf Over 84 to 90 86, 88, Lighweight
3 Leaf Over 90 101,107,109,110 (Includes FCs)
4 Coil Up to 95 90
5 Coil / Air Over 95 Range Rover,Discovery,Freelander,110,127 / 130
Modified
6 Leaf Up to 84 80 only
7 Leaf Over 84 to 90 86, 88, Lighweight
8 Leaf Over 90 101,107,109,110 (Includes FCs)
9 Coil Up to 84 80 only
10 Coil Over 84 to 95 86,88,Lightweight,90
11 Coil / Air Over 95 All types over 95" wheelbase

L.1.2. Amalgamations. Where event entry is small, suggested amalgamations are shown below:-

Class Suspension Type Wheelbase Range Applicability

1 & 6 Leaf Up to 84 80 only
2 & 7 Leaf Over 84 to 90 86, 88, Lighweight
3 & 8 Leaf Up to 84 101,107,109,110
9 Coil Over 84 to 95 80 only
4 & 10 Coil / Air Over 95 86, 88, Lighweight, 90
5 & 11 Coil / Air, 109, 110 Range Rover,Discovery,Freelander, 101, 107

This reduces 11 classes to 6 in a practical and fair way.
Amalgamation depends upon how many of each class turn up at the event, but the six classes above would be close to the norm at small-club level.

L.1.3. Competitive Safari:-
Standard
1 Leaf sprung. Up to 2000cc 4 cylinder petrol and up to 2286cc diesel engine.
2 Leaf sprung. 2001cc to 2495cc petrol or 2287cc to 2495cc diesel & LWB 2625cc 6 cylinder petrol.
3 90 / Ninety / SWB Defender (Petrol & normally aspirated diesel.)
4 All models with Turbo-diesel engines.
5 Range Rover, Discovery, 110 / One Ten / LWB Defender, Freelander, all FC’s & LWB-V8.(Petrol.)

Modified
6 Leaf sprung up to 3000cc.
7 Leaf sprung above 3000cc.
8 Coil / air sprung up to 3600cc.
9 Coil / air sprung above 3600cc.

Dr_evil said:

Remote oil and dry sump

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Still a much higher C o G and heavy my gear box is 35KG

owl said:

Still a much higher C o G and heavy my gear box is 35KG

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Oooh that is super light!


My box must be a good 120kg built up with transfer

owl said:

Diesels are fine, there are classes for them so don't be put off. Best thing to do with a rotten disco TDI and would make an inexpensive competition motor.

Section L - Regulations Applicable to all Competition Events.
This section contains items of an operational nature only.
L.1. VEHICLE CLASSES.
Grouped mainly by physical size and suspension type.
L.1.1. Trials
Vehicles are categorised on wheelbase and suspension type and divided into Standard and Modified.

Class Suspension Type Wheelbase Range Applicability
Standard
1 Leaf Up to 84 80 only
2 Leaf Over 84 to 90 86, 88, Lighweight
3 Leaf Over 90 101,107,109,110 (Includes FCs)
4 Coil Up to 95 90
5 Coil / Air Over 95 Range Rover,Discovery,Freelander,110,127 / 130
Modified
6 Leaf Up to 84 80 only
7 Leaf Over 84 to 90 86, 88, Lighweight
8 Leaf Over 90 101,107,109,110 (Includes FCs)
9 Coil Up to 84 80 only
10 Coil Over 84 to 95 86,88,Lightweight,90
11 Coil / Air Over 95 All types over 95" wheelbase

L.1.2. Amalgamations. Where event entry is small, suggested amalgamations are shown below:-

Class Suspension Type Wheelbase Range Applicability

1 & 6 Leaf Up to 84 80 only
2 & 7 Leaf Over 84 to 90 86, 88, Lighweight
3 & 8 Leaf Up to 84 101,107,109,110
9 Coil Over 84 to 95 80 only
4 & 10 Coil / Air Over 95 86, 88, Lighweight, 90
5 & 11 Coil / Air, 109, 110 Range Rover,Discovery,Freelander, 101, 107

This reduces 11 classes to 6 in a practical and fair way.
Amalgamation depends upon how many of each class turn up at the event, but the six classes above would be close to the norm at small-club level.

L.1.3. Competitive Safari:-
Standard
1 Leaf sprung. Up to 2000cc 4 cylinder petrol and up to 2286cc diesel engine.
2 Leaf sprung. 2001cc to 2495cc petrol or 2287cc to 2495cc diesel & LWB 2625cc 6 cylinder petrol.
3 90 / Ninety / SWB Defender (Petrol & normally aspirated diesel.)
4 All models with Turbo-diesel engines.
5 Range Rover, Discovery, 110 / One Ten / LWB Defender, Freelander, all FC’s & LWB-V8.(Petrol.)

Modified
6 Leaf sprung up to 3000cc.
7 Leaf sprung above 3000cc.
8 Coil / air sprung up to 3600cc.
9 Coil / air sprung above 3600cc.

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Ouu interesting, thanks. So i can compete in my Series in a leaf class Although as it has a 200di lump in it i guess i'd have to be in the modified class