Aaron's 90 rebuild (Round 2)

Brown said:

..I know purists probably won't like this, but my attitude to cylinder wear is that until you can click your fingernail on the steps at the top and bottom of the ring travel you don't need a rebore!

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With respect, that is plain wrong. If it is indeed caused by hot-spots (and I can't tell from here) then a very small gap lets combustion gases past. Through time, if nothing is done to correct it, the gap becomes worse and worse... There is no way in the world you would feel it with your fingernail.

Many years ago when I was rebuilding a lot of Ford engines I tried to fix one on the cheap for a friend who was a bit broke. I thought there might be a chance new rings would cure it, but alas no. Ended up stripping it all again and ended up boring out from 2.0 to 2.1 with new Pistons/rings to match..

MayorQuimby said:

The only other time I've seen that inside cylinder bores is when "hot spots" have built up due to blow-by on worn rings. If that's the case it will need rebored as new rings wouldn't cure it.
Hopefully it's not that..

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This is a better picture I took today. I have a feeling it is something to do with the rings.

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Brown said:

Yes, the rust is in a funny place, because the rust patches on the mating face don't quite match up with the water holes. I wonder if water could have been creeping between the layers of the gasket.

I know purists probably won't like this, but my attitude to cylinder wear is that until you can click your fingernail on the steps at the top and bottom of the ring travel you don't need a rebore! Doesn't look like you're at that point yet.

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Possibly, although their didn't appear to be any rust stains their.
Either way it's nothing a new gasket wouldn't sort out

Ok, so the garage may look like a bombs hit it, but the engines striped ready for a little bit more analysis.
Although I have a feeling it's going to cost way more money than I have available to do it properly.
I've probably removed way too much stuff but it's f*cking heavy with everything bolted on

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But a couple of things I've noticed while striping.
Cam has a little bit of pitting on some lobes.

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And the tappets are pitted quite bad. Although some worse than others.



And a better picture of the marks on some of the cylinder walls. Caused buy the rings? Who knows, it's not something I've seen before.

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Ok. The tappers are history. What are the pushrods like? That cam is also history. Unfortunately it looks as though the lobes have wiped. Classic symptom of top end oil starvation.
As for the cylinder bores it's still very hard to tell. I'm less concerned about the ring marks on the bores as these could be caused simply by the engine being stood for a while. Im more concerned about the darker marks in your earlier pic. The one that shows the marks in the same position in all 6 cylinders..

Planning on doing a chassis change sometime in the future on mine. Your builds are an Inspiration Mate and I will get loads of help and in info through reading them as Im no mechanic myself.
Anyway googled a few bits, to try and get some info for you is this any good M20 cylinder bore: marks/ex-rust (PLEASE look and advise) - e30tech.com Forums might be of some help his photos look like the same problem you have.

Yea the marks on the cylinder bores that you linked to look similar to the marks on Aaron's bores that I'm not worried about. They are totally different to the darker marks that potentially are far more serious.

MayorQuimby said:

Ok. The tappers are history. What are the pushrods like? That cam is also history. Unfortunately it looks as though the lobes have wiped. Classic symptom of top end oil starvation.
As for the cylinder bores it's still very hard to tell. I'm less concerned about the ring marks on the bores as these could be caused simply by the engine being stood for a while. Im more concerned about the darker marks in your earlier pic. The one that shows the marks in the same position in all 6 cylinders..

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Yes I looked a little closer at the marks after posting and I think it's from standing, because if you look at the corresponding cylinder the marks are at the same height, then same again for the other 2 pairs. If that makes sense
And again, I think the camera is playing tricks, I had flash on I think so might not give a true picture.
I think I've decided to just get another engine for now anyhow.
Regardless of whether or not it needs a re-bore it's going to cost more than my funds allow at the mo.

border said:

Planning on doing a chassis change sometime in the future on mine. Your builds are an Inspiration Mate and I will get loads of help and in info through reading them as Im no mechanic myself.
Anyway googled a few bits, to try and get some info for you is this any good M20 cylinder bore: marks/ex-rust (PLEASE look and advise) - e30tech.com Forums might be of some help his photos look like the same problem you have.

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Cheers mate They do look similar to mine, which they don't seem too concerned about, so maybe my block is ok. Which if it is I suppose it could be rebuild in the future.
But as above, I think I'll just be buying another engine.

I think you're making the right decision to get a replacement. Will be far cheaper. If only you pulled the sump and bearing caps before you ran it.....
Hindsights a wonderful thing though. I've done things like that before as well. Many times.
Let me know if you are getting rid to save space and we can maybe reach a deal bud.

Just seen your post on FB mate, bad news...... I can feel your pain :-(

Owen

MayorQuimby said:

With respect, that is plain wrong. If it is indeed caused by hot-spots (and I can't tell from here) then a very small gap lets combustion gases past. Through time, if nothing is done to correct it, the gap becomes worse and worse... There is no way in the world you would feel it with your fingernail.

Many years ago when I was rebuilding a lot of Ford engines I tried to fix one on the cheap for a friend who was a bit broke. I thought there might be a chance new rings would cure it, but alas no. Ended up stripping it all again and ended up boring out from 2.0 to 2.1 with new Pistons/rings to match..

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Ha ha - I'm a proud doer of things wrong. It kept me mobile for many impoverished years in my student days, often with Triumph Heralds and Morris Oxfords. For the one with the bits of piston ring glued to the inside of the cylinders, we did actually splash out for a rebore.

Any update bud?

My thought aswell

MayorQuimby said:

I think you're making the right decision to get a replacement. Will be far cheaper. If only you pulled the sump and bearing caps before you ran it.....
Hindsights a wonderful thing though. I've done things like that before as well. Many times.
Let me know if you are getting rid to save space and we can maybe reach a deal bud.

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Yep, well I certainly learnt the lesson the hard way, but I sure as hell hope it never happens again.

Offshiftproject said:

Just seen your post on FB mate, bad news...... I can feel your pain :-(

Cheers bud, sure is sickening

Owen

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Brown said:

Ha ha - I'm a proud doer of things wrong. It kept me mobile for many impoverished years in my student days, often with Triumph Heralds and Morris Oxfords. For the one with the bits of piston ring glued to the inside of the cylinders, we did actually splash out for a rebore.

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I'm not a student, but I'm still impoverished
Bloody Landrovers

MayorQuimby said:

Any update bud?

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Ah, sorry bud I forgot to reply the other day
I've another engine sat on the drive as we speak
Not sure what to do with the old one yet,
keep it and rebuild in the future as a long term project.
Sell it as a whole but in bits, although I feel this will bring peanuts.
Or bit it all out, or the good bits at least, and keep a few spares for myself. Probably take a while but end up a little better off and theirs no rush just yet.

aaronmorris said:

I've another engine sat on the drive as we speak

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Lol I bet your neighbour was having kittens

Sorry for the hassle you are having engine-wise but I'm glad you are soldiering on with it.
Good luck mate

Boy that was quick sourcing another engine. Ebay?
Your garden is gonna look like a Cummins breakers yard
Unfortunately blown engines don't fetch much. Especially if it's due to lack of oil as so much usually ends up needing replaced
Please keep me in mind if you need to get rid to free up garden/garage space. I would love a long term engine build and would give you fair price.
Oh and pics of new engine please...

Jam1 said:

Lol I bet your neighbour was having kittens

Sorry for the hassle you are having engine-wise but I'm glad you are soldiering on with it.
Good luck mate

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Cheers mate Wasn't in when it was delivered as I had to go to work and it came via pallet courier.
So I had to get me ma' to deal with it, which, erm..... Didn't go down too well
"I'm not dealing with it having the neighbours giving me ****!"
"I'm sick of them complaining, you need to sell everything you got, see how much money you've got and f*cking move out!"

So I was in the bad books. Luckily no one was in when it came so all was good

MayorQuimby said:

Boy that was quick sourcing another engine. Ebay?
Your garden is gonna look like a Cummins breakers yard
Unfortunately blown engines don't fetch much. Especially if it's due to lack of oil as so much usually ends up needing replaced
Please keep me in mind if you need to get rid to free up garden/garage space. I would love a long term engine build and would give you fair price.
Oh and pics of new engine please...

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Yes not too bad Was a truck breaker on ebay. It's where I find most things to be honest

Agreed ref knackered engines, even more so now I've stripped it all.
And you can find supposed good engines/gearbox for £500-600ish, so no one is going to pay much for it.
I've been looking this evening and it's got to go, or at least some of it, I just don't have the room to store it all.
So having worked out what the engine owes me I'm going to sell all the bits individually, and I recon I should do most of the money back given time.
Then keep some spares for myself, like the pas pump and I'll get the internal pressure re-set to lr spec's at some point in the future and do away with the prv.

Oh and I'll stick a pic up in a mo
Not had chance to do much today mind as I've been roped into other stuff.

So for those who wanted pictures, here we are
Nothing much to see at the mo, but as I say I was roped into doing other stuff today.
Like painting the fence and the shed. Which took all day and it's still not done, apparently I'm helping again tomorrow
Still I managed to get half hour on it late this evening, the engine had fell over slightly on the pallet during transit so my main priority was to get it back upright.
Which I did, then removed a couple of bits I don't need. Gear selector/stick, engine mounts and a couple of other little bits.
Hopefully I do get a couple of hours tomorrow, but if not it's just a case of at least getting it in the garage and off the drive.

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There's no moss growing on you is there.

Good to see another lump sat ready for your attention, looks clean on the outside, hopefully it's even better on the inside.

Yeah looks like a clean engine hopefully it's a good one.

Well, you know I'm interested in the motor bud. Ping me a PM as I would like 1st dibs.

What parts would you be wanting to keep for yourself?

Oh and with the "new" motor, pull the sump and main/big-end caps.... Pics if your unsure