Tony Reeves
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Give me time, I have a list.Turbo VVC anyone?
A Minor Upgrade (VVC)
- Thread starter Tony Reeves
- Start date
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Tony Reeves
Well-Known Member
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- 633
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- New Zealand
Street Legal now.
Progress has been a bit slow due to plumbing issues - mine. Male Maturity problems.
Most systems are go and I have just got a Warrant of Fitness and license after minor skirmishes with the vehicle inspector.
Sharp eyed ones may notice that the connector mount on the right is up a bit, still got a couple of circuits to sort, then retape parts of the loom.
Outstanding bits are:
- Engine Warning Light
- Mount Loom Plugs
- Read Engine Faults (VAG cable arrived, yet to set up)
- Retape Harness as Reqd
- Hill Descent and Traction Control Light (probably OK now, but to get wof, cut two wires)
- Interior Trim
- Radio
- Fit Speed Sensor (Freelander uses ABS and has a dummy sensor in gearbox, VVC seems to need a real one and may be the issue with HD and TC)
- Mount Spare
- Remove extra Cables under Bonnet
- Noise/rattle in exhaust
And how does it go?
Quite well actually. I am very pleased with it. Seems pretty normal up to about 3,000 rpm, but from then on it just keeps going. By 4,000 rpm it has a new lease on life. Not much use for off road, but for highway it is great.
Progress has been a bit slow due to plumbing issues - mine. Male Maturity problems.
Most systems are go and I have just got a Warrant of Fitness and license after minor skirmishes with the vehicle inspector.
Sharp eyed ones may notice that the connector mount on the right is up a bit, still got a couple of circuits to sort, then retape parts of the loom.
Outstanding bits are:
- Engine Warning Light
- Mount Loom Plugs
- Read Engine Faults (VAG cable arrived, yet to set up)
- Retape Harness as Reqd
- Hill Descent and Traction Control Light (probably OK now, but to get wof, cut two wires)
- Interior Trim
- Radio
- Fit Speed Sensor (Freelander uses ABS and has a dummy sensor in gearbox, VVC seems to need a real one and may be the issue with HD and TC)
- Mount Spare
- Remove extra Cables under Bonnet
- Noise/rattle in exhaust
And how does it go?
Quite well actually. I am very pleased with it. Seems pretty normal up to about 3,000 rpm, but from then on it just keeps going. By 4,000 rpm it has a new lease on life. Not much use for off road, but for highway it is great.
Tony Reeves
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- 633
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- New Zealand
Quite keen on comments as to whether I should craft a VVC badge for it. I am in two minds, it would create some interest and/or confusion but I also like to keep a low profile.
Nodge68
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Sounds like a good project and your test drive impressions are what I'd expect to see. The VVC is basically a standard 1.8 below 4,000 RPM and a racing engine above that.
I think the HDC TC issues might be data line problems. I'm not sure what, if any coms are output from the engine ECU to the ABS ECU. This will take some investigation and possibly recoding of the software.
Nice to see the project coming together.
Tony Reeves
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- New Zealand
A required hack!
The MEMS 2J ECU is bigger and has another plug so does not physically fit in place of the original unit.
The original MEMS 1.9 Unit in place (ignore lack of cover)
And the new one in the same place.
I could have used a large hammer, but resorted to some surgery instead...
With this result...
The MEMS 2J ECU is bigger and has another plug so does not physically fit in place of the original unit.
The original MEMS 1.9 Unit in place (ignore lack of cover)
And the new one in the same place.
I could have used a large hammer, but resorted to some surgery instead...
With this result...
Attachments
Alibro
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Warning lights can be easily sorted by careful application of black warning light sticky tape. Remove the dash and it comes apart pretty easily, then put the special tape over the offending light and reassemble. Completely invisible and will take less than an hour to do.
Tony Reeves
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- New Zealand
Warning lights can be easily sorted by careful application of black warning light sticky tape. Remove the dash and it comes apart pretty easily, then put the special tape over the offending light and reassemble. Completely invisible and will take less than an hour to do.
There is a convenient connector on the side of the interior fusebox. Just pop the right pins out. Way easier than pulling the dash out.
Nodge68
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It's surely better to solve the problem and get the ABS working, rather than fool the tester?
Alibro
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LOL, I would have done that if I'd known which pin to pull. In my case it was only the HDC light so not an MOT issue. Would be nice to get the ABS working if possible.
Tony Reeves
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Of course. But I was waiting on the proper speed sensor (now here) and thought I would at least check what other things the pedantic fools would find first.
Tony Reeves
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- 633
- Location
- New Zealand
ABS itself seems to be fine, light comes on at start and goes off once I get moving.
It did have the full set of 3 amigos when I first got it, but pushing each wheel sensor in with a 5 thou feeler gauge in front of the tone wheel fixed them all.
Tony Reeves
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- 633
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- New Zealand
Not a lot of progress, bloody cold outside and I am wandering around with a catheter waiting on a "procedure".
Fitting the speed sensor did not cure the ABS issue. Fault code shows "No PWM signal from ECU". It looks like pin 10 on the ABS unit is expecting a PWM signal indicating throttle position. I will put together a 12V pwm controller and see if I can fake a signal to make it work, the middle wire on the throttle position sensor will do for an input. Worst case I will have to get the old ECU running on the bench and watch the output signal while the TPS input is varied.
Other issue is being able to read engine fault codes. I got a very cheap VAG cable but it was DOA. Ordered another from a more reputable source, when I have that I can start looking at what the ECU is up to.
However I suspect there are few if any ECU fault codes or issues. The Freelander is running very well. Apart from a loose baffle in the muffler, it is running very well. Amazing the way it pulls smoothly to over 7,000 RPM with no stress.
Now starting to look for some new interior trim for it, would like leather seats.
Fitting the speed sensor did not cure the ABS issue. Fault code shows "No PWM signal from ECU". It looks like pin 10 on the ABS unit is expecting a PWM signal indicating throttle position. I will put together a 12V pwm controller and see if I can fake a signal to make it work, the middle wire on the throttle position sensor will do for an input. Worst case I will have to get the old ECU running on the bench and watch the output signal while the TPS input is varied.
Other issue is being able to read engine fault codes. I got a very cheap VAG cable but it was DOA. Ordered another from a more reputable source, when I have that I can start looking at what the ECU is up to.
However I suspect there are few if any ECU fault codes or issues. The Freelander is running very well. Apart from a loose baffle in the muffler, it is running very well. Amazing the way it pulls smoothly to over 7,000 RPM with no stress.
Now starting to look for some new interior trim for it, would like leather seats.
Alibro
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I just sold my MGF VVC as not using it enough but it always brought a smile to my face when I revved it out.
Tony Reeves
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All Done.
The bit that took the most stuffing around was getting the throttle position signal to the ABS/TC/HDC ECU. Failure mode was missing PWM signal, and it is needed to tell HDC that foot is off throttle.
Looking at it with scope and frequency counter, it is clearly not a pure PWM signal, and frequency varies from 250Hz at closed throttle to 420Hz at any opening. I started to build a PWM signal source, but it was clear that the signal was being modulated by a code value, not continuous PWM.
So I took the easy way out and just kept the old ECU in circuit to provide the signal. The variable voltage to the VVC ECU is paralleled to the old ecu and that supplies the right signal to the ABS system. Apart from +ve's, ground, signal in and signal out no other connection is needed and it only draws 100 mA.
It is where the tool bag used to be, mounted on a 16ga plate that is bolted to the bag holder.
So now it goes - in more ways than one. It does run very well, but.....
I bought a 2001 V6 with a really nice inside to refresh the VVC one. But the new one is too good. I only have room for one, so VVC will go.
Next project - V6 with manual gear box, another VVC 1.8, Turbo, small block chev??????
I will rest a bit then see what materialises.
The bit that took the most stuffing around was getting the throttle position signal to the ABS/TC/HDC ECU. Failure mode was missing PWM signal, and it is needed to tell HDC that foot is off throttle.
Looking at it with scope and frequency counter, it is clearly not a pure PWM signal, and frequency varies from 250Hz at closed throttle to 420Hz at any opening. I started to build a PWM signal source, but it was clear that the signal was being modulated by a code value, not continuous PWM.
So I took the easy way out and just kept the old ECU in circuit to provide the signal. The variable voltage to the VVC ECU is paralleled to the old ecu and that supplies the right signal to the ABS system. Apart from +ve's, ground, signal in and signal out no other connection is needed and it only draws 100 mA.
It is where the tool bag used to be, mounted on a 16ga plate that is bolted to the bag holder.
So now it goes - in more ways than one. It does run very well, but.....
I bought a 2001 V6 with a really nice inside to refresh the VVC one. But the new one is too good. I only have room for one, so VVC will go.
Next project - V6 with manual gear box, another VVC 1.8, Turbo, small block chev??????
I will rest a bit then see what materialises.
Alibro
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Nnnooooooooo. After all that work you're selling her.
Please tell us you'll do some 0-60 timings before letting go. Seriously good work there mate, much respect.
The saddest thing is you'll never get a buyer who understands or appreciates what you've achieved.
Tony Reeves
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- 633
- Location
- New Zealand
Nnnooooooooo. After all that work you're selling her.
Seriously good work there mate, much respect.
The saddest thing is you'll never get a buyer who understands or appreciates what you've achieved.
I only bought it as a quick do up and flick on, my hobby during retirement. The VVC motor was the best price way of fixing it, and the challenge was what I like doing. I appreciate what I achieved, don't really worry about what others think.
I suspect my next project will be with me for more time, but who knows.
I will try it out and post some times tomorrow - hopefully won't get a big bang in the process......
Nodge68
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Well done Tony for getting the ABS ECU to work as it should.
So let me just confirm your work around.
You are running the engine with the VVC ECU, obviously. But you are using the factory ECU to output throttle position information to the ABS.
Can you post up the connections you used, as I'm sure others would find that interesting or useful.
From memory, you car is a Japanese spec with no immobiliser. I wonder if that simplified your work around.
Incidentally I did have some information on the data stream between the engine ECU and ABS ECU. I'll have to dig it out. It's obviously not a simple PWM signal, as that would make it too easy.
Once again, well done.
Oh I did look into creating a manual V6 Freelander some time back. I decided that it is possible but you'll encounter electronic issues by losing the TCM. I did think it possible to keep the TCM as a stand alone unit. Maybe with some "dummy" sensors and loads to keep it happy.
I look forward reading all about that conversion too
htr
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Tony - awesome project and yes I've seen your advert' on TM. I had a VVC motor and toyed with the idea of fitting it. Th mechanical side is easy for me but the electronically bits n bobs would baffle me. I've seen some of the Freelander Challenge competitors seem to be using a VVC motor in their 'rigs'. If you did write up a how to guide with pic's I'm sure it would be a popular down load! Manual V6 - look forward to following that!
zefrench
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*edited*Well done Tony for getting the ABS ECU to work as it should.
So let me just confirm your work around.
You are running the engine with the VVC ECU, obviously. But you are using the factory ECU to output throttle position information to the ABS.
Can you post up the connections you used, as I'm sure others would find that interesting or useful.
From memory, you car is a Japanese spec with no immobiliser. I wonder if that simplified your work around.
Incidentally I did have some information on the data stream between the engine ECU and ABS ECU. I'll have to dig it out. It's obviously not a simple PWM signal, as that would make it too easy.
Once again, well done.
Oh I did look into creating a manual V6 Freelander some time back. I decided that it is possible but you'll encounter electronic issues by losing the TCM. I did think it possible to keep the TCM as a stand alone unit. Maybe with some "dummy" sensors and loads to keep it happy.
I look forward reading all about that conversion too
Sorry Nodge68
I just noticed your replies in this thread so of course you know about it..
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-ro...ystery-please-help.249054/page-2#post-2979723
Last edited:
300bhp/ton
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Turbo might be the ultimate for power, but not for power delivery. N/a makes for a much 'nicer' engine.You are correct on torque curves. The 118 BHP Freelander has a peak torque lower in the rev range then the VVC 143. However the 118 peaks out a couple Ftlb lower than the VVC at the same Rpm. There's a tiny bit more torque below 2000 Rpm from the Freelander engine but not much.
The VVC is a great engine and should make an interesting power unit for the Freelander. Turbo charged is the ultimate power unit but it's not an easy conversion, but worth it in the long run.
I still give you a big thumbs up for the VVC though
