90 gearbox vibration/clonk

Hey all,

car: 90 defender 1993 200tdi 5 speed

After a recent journey down the motorway the gearbox/transferbox started to whine quite a lot and there was a fair bit of vibration.
Fearing the worst I left the motorway and used the back roads for the rest of the journey. The lower speeds stopped the whine but a new vibration/clonk has started mostly above 40mph, but now even at lower speeds.

After a couple of weeks and maybe 1000km more driving the problem is getting worse. Yesterday had to drive over the mountain and back, on the return climb the roatational lumpy feeling/inaudible clock was happening more and more and at lower speeds too. spose the total journey was about 80km with around 2000m of climbing in altitude. long enough to get the oils to full temp etc.

Just checked the diff and transferbox oil levels and both the rear diff and the transfer box were low by about 200/500ml respectively. the rear diff is leaking at the wheel bearing end and the parts are turning up this week to sort that out.
The transferbox looks to be leaking between the first part after the gearbox and the main part of the transferbox. There is a join in the case where it seems to be leaking from.
Refilling both made no difference to the clonk (which has sped up enough to be more of a vibration now)

Couldn't check the gearbox level as didn't have any spanners to hand. front diff was fine.
The props seem sturdy and mounted well, a little side to side movement in the front one but not very much.

The vibration is still there a little with the clutched pressed and freewheeling, but only a tiny bit. It seems more connected to engine speed as it will do it in high revs at lower speeds. going uphill makes it show up more, spose as there is more load on the drive line.

So my fear is that the oil has leaked out of the transferbox, run the car without enough oil at speed and done damage to the internals.
It's now off the road as I feel it's being damaged every time it moves.

What do you guys think might be at fault?
Are there things that can be checked to confirm damage or good parts?

Thanks for reading.

Check input gear and gearbox ouput shaft spline

Oil levels

Bet you its a u/j, when did you last grease props?

Alpinelandy said:

The props seem sturdy and mounted well, a little side to side movement in the front one but not very much.

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Should be NO disenable movement in props - try taking front prop off, put diff lock in and go for a drive to see if it has gone/reduced. Also check prop drive flanges have no movement (on Tbox & diff)

Good info people, thanks!

the movement in the front prop was where it's got the extension inside it that allows to it extend and shorten, there is a few mm of movement between the innner and outer parts if i put my body weight behind it. will try removing the front prop to check.

never greesed the props, never knew i had to! will check the uj's.

lynall said:

Bet you its a u/j, when did you last grease props?

Click to expand...

+1 That's where my £1 bet would go.

Alpinelandy said:

Good info people, thanks!

the movement in the front prop was where it's got the extension inside it that allows to it extend and shorten, there is a few mm of movement between the innner and outer parts if i put my body weight behind it. will try removing the front prop to check.

never greesed the props, never knew i had to! will check the uj's.

Click to expand...

UJs will fail if not greased. Sliding joints can seize or wear out too, Sounds like yours has.

This happened to me, I've just bought some new UJ's for the rear prop as there was lots of play in one of them, so decided to replace both as I'll have it off anyway. I'll report back after next weekend with the difference. I wasn't aware I was to grease the prop shafts! I'll do it religiously from now on! The prop shaft itself is easy enough to get off, whether the UJ's will need some encouragement is another thing! All fun though.

To check the U/J's with the prop on the vehicle chock wheels, transferbox in nuetral and handbrake off.

BB

Could you expand on that a little for me please? Once it's all chocked and out of gear, what is the test to be done?

thanks.

Hey all,

So got under the landy and found what all the new noises were and exactly where the problem was coming from. turned out the thing i heard break the other day was the UJ!



Test drove it without the front prop and all was well.

The rear prop does have a small amount of play in the 2 UJs (about 0.8mm and 1.3mm) and could do with some more grease. There is still a small vibration with only the rear prop, but not sure if it's just 2wd-ness or the rear prop wobling about a bit.

So this poses a couple of questinos, firtly is it easy enough/worth it to change the rear UJs myself? going to get a new front prop.

Also is it safe to drive the poor girl in diff lock without a front prop? normal weekly milage is about 30km at low speeds.

cheers

Alpinelandy said:

Hey all,

So got under the landy and found what all the new noises were and exactly where the problem was coming from. turned out the thing i heard break the other day was the UJ!

Test drove it without the front prop and all was well.

The rear prop does have a small amount of play in the 2 UJs (about 0.8mm and 1.3mm) and could do with some more grease. There is still a small vibration with only the rear prop, but not sure if it's just 2wd-ness or the rear prop wobling about a bit.

So this poses a couple of questinos, firtly is it easy enough/worth it to change the rear UJs myself? going to get a new front prop.

Also is it safe to drive the poor girl in diff lock without a front prop? normal weekly milage is about 30km at low speeds.

cheers

Click to expand...

If your into mm play it needs repair or needle rollers will fail and throw prop

Driving just on rear prop with diff lock engaged will be fine by the way

Station House said:

Driving just on rear prop with diff lock engaged will be fine by the way

Click to expand...

Unless a rear prop U/J goes tits up which it sounds like it might

So is this a doable DIY repair for the rear prop? or does it need presses or other special tools?

Doable yes, but a big vice helps

I cheated and just swapped the prop out - lazy I know

A decent vice will do it or if you're stuck it can be done carefully with a hammer and some sockets of the right size to knock the bearing cups out.

right so the need to do a long 800mile drive forced me to get this job finished and see how the old landy is. changed both rear shocks, right rear wheel bearing and stub axel and all oil seals, topped up rear diff oil, checked rear prop off car and seems fine. fitted new front prop and greased both props and pumped up the tyres to high speed pressures.

took it for a 300km test drive with mountain roads and motorway. seemed fine and was zooming along at over 70mph on the motorway (in italy, limit is 80 ) without any trouble. near the end of the drive i could hear/slightly feel a rumble from somewhere that started on the mountain roads (climbing). drove it as lightly as i could for another week and all seemed well.

start the 800 mile drive back to the UK, first 2 hours of mountains was fine but on the motorway couldn't really go over 60mph due to some vibration that was enough to move the rear view mirror. stopped for fuel after 3-4hours of driving and checked what i could, all seemed fine on props so thoughts turned to internal gearbox or diff woes. pumped the tyres up a little more and got going again.

managed to roll along at 65mph which was a calm point for vibrations. uphills made the problem a lot worse so the lightest amout of throttle was used. after the 2nd tank of fuel the left rear wheel bearing started to sing so that needs replacing now (didn't even have play 2 months ago?) but just turned radio up to ignor it.

got it back to the UK ok but was only able to do 55mph after getting on UK motorways due to bad vibration from somewhere. was dark by then so didn't investigate just wanted to get home.

so what could be the issue now? is the rear diff dead? or are one of the boxes about to chuck a fit and die?

booked in for MOT tomorrow and asked the garage to sort wheel bearing but will also ask to try and work out what is doing the vibrating. a little hard for them as it only seems to do it once it's warm and on a bigger road.

TBH i think this is it for the landy and me. as soon as she's fit, taxed and tested she is going up for sale. need something more reliable and much more car like. the poor defender is rubbish at being a car and is only really any good at being an off roader. other than being a 4x4, in every other way it's a compromise.
still waiting for my ears to stop ringing from 15 hours behind the wheel at motorway speeds, that was 2 days ago.

Should have no play at all in prop UJs and splines.

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f7/lucky-escape-265711.html

as stated, checked the rear prop and there is no play, front is new?