300tdi wont start

hi guys.
I'm struggling to get my 300tdi to start.
it's auto with manual pump conversion.
fuel filter bleed has good pressure on turn over and lift pump also pushes fuel out of the bleed when you pump it.
glow plugs work
direct wire to stop solenoid and no luck.

it cranks but show no signs of firing.

there is a thumping noise from the rear tank area when I crank it. don't know if this should happen.

I've check fuel lines and can't see any splits.

any advice

cheers

Can you here a clicking sound when you put power to the stop solenoid? Could be stuck.
Undo an injector pipe union then crank the engine to see if you get diesel coming out of it

so I turn ignition on and put a wire from battery positive to stop solenoid and inshould hear a clicking even without cranking?

if that's right, then no I cannot hear any clicking

also no fuel coming out of Union 3 and 4. didn't try 1 and 2

taken stop solenoid off and plunger has been removed already. Still doesn't click though

ashleywood.ash said:

so I turn ignition on and put a wire from battery positive to stop solenoid and inshould hear a clicking even without cranking?

if that's right, then no I cannot hear any clicking
also no fuel coming out of Union 3 and 4. didn't try 1 and 2
taken stop solenoid off and plunger has been removed already. Still doesn't click though

Click to expand...

It's broken.
The solenoid stops the engine.
If the solenoid was permanently 'open' the engine would never stop (unless you stalled it).
The solenoid stops the fuel entering the pump, if there is no fuel coming out of the unions then the solenoid is not opening to let the fuel in...

miktdish said:

It's broken.
The solenoid stops the engine.
If the solenoid was permanently 'open' the engine would never stop (unless you stalled it).
The solenoid stops the fuel entering the pump, if there is no fuel coming out of the unions then the solenoid is not opening to let the fuel in...

Click to expand...

Without some very precise looking at and possible further dismantlement.....how do we know?
It could be possible that a previous owner has removed the solenoid for the precise reason that it is bust and stopping the engine starting.
I was once forced to do this with a Renault 19 TD. As you say, once started I had to stall it to stop it. Not the end of the world, did it for quite a while until I could get a new solenoid!
IF this is the case then the lack of fuel to the engine could be down to other stuff...... fuel pump etc etc.
Put it this way, he could test this theory by removing the stop solenoid, trying to start the engine and if it DOES start, stopping it by putting it in 4th or 5th foot on brake and stalling it.

Have you fitted the inj pump or is it an existing install?
Cam belt still intact?

bought as a non runner. I didnt fit the manual pump but was apparently running fine then just would start and cut out and now just won't start.

I havent check cam belt. I'll remove cover and look

also would it start with no solenoid or would fuel just pour out the hole.

and how do you stall an auto

ashleywood.ash said:

bought as a non runner. I didnt fit the manual pump but was apparently running fine then just would start and cut out and now just won't start.

I havent check cam belt. I'll remove cover and look

Click to expand...

Just remove the small round plate and check for dust etc
Then check pump timing
Both require minimal stripping for access
Possible to mix up pump banjos as return has a restictor built in, but they both look the same to those who dont know

no dust or fluff behind plate cover or in drain hole at bottom. I cant see mich through the hole but can feel rubber up there when prodding with a wire.

I suspect previous checked this as part of the gasket for the inspection cover was broken off and sat just below. that surely would have blown away a long time ago

how do I check pump timing without taking full cover off

Pin through bottom of flywheel housing and pin through inj pump pulley under that round cover
In practice a drill bit works fine as inj pump timing pin and torch and eyeball can see if slot is in centre of hole
Vids on youtube

Are you sure fuel is actually getting to the inj pump?
Any fuel in fuel filter?

ashleywood.ash said:

so I turn ignition on and put a wire from battery positive to stop solenoid and inshould hear a clicking even without cranking?

Click to expand...

Leave ignition off and connect a live feed from the battery to stop solenoid, you should hear a 'click' sound, if you don't then the solenoid is more than likely broken. This will stop you getting fuel to the injector unions.

fuel in filter. I didnt actually check its going to pump.
I'll check other stuff mentioned this weekend.
thanks for help so far

ashleywood.ash said:

bought as a non runner. I didnt fit the manual pump but was apparently running fine then just would start and cut out and now just won't start.

I havent check cam belt. I'll remove cover and look

also would it start with no solenoid or would fuel just pour out the hole.

and how do you stall an auto

Click to expand...

Forgot it was an auto. You'd have to disconnect the "in " pipe to the fuel pump. Or fit a fuel tap of some sort. Easier to get a working stop solenoid in the end.
You could use a gravity feed to test the motor, with a fuel tap in the line, to bypass everthing to do with the existing fuel system before the injection pump and so on. But if the cam belt has gone you'd get a lot of clattering when turning it over, even if you could turn it over, if it is an interference engine, but I don't know if it is or isn't. You might be able to see the cam turning just by looking thorugh the oil filler cap hole, maybe. I haven't worked on a 300tdi for ages now.T
The stop solenoid uses electricity to draw a piece of iron into itself which opens the fuel to the injection pump, once acutated. It clicks when electricity is applied to it cos when not actuated a spring lets it fall back into the closed position. If I remember rightly.
Picture of and description of how to remove the plunger and spring then put the useless solenid back in to keep the fuel inside, to be seen here.
https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/46167-faulty-stop-solenoid-perhaps/

been working away do only just got back to this:
-newstop solenoid fitted
-lift pump works fine and manually primes
-timing belt cover off and belt is fine and timing marks line up
-rocker cover off and no broken rockers
-previously edc so no spider immobiliser
- getting fuel to fuel filter, fuel to lift pump and fuel to manual fuel pump
- no fuel to injectors
- turns over but doesn't fire, not even of easy start into inlet
- glow plugs work as they should

any other ideas?

if it has been hydrolocked would this have knocked timing out? it sounds low on compression on turnover I think, or just sounds off

ashleywood.ash said:

been working away do only just got back to this:
-newstop solenoid fitted
-lift pump works fine and manually primes
-timing belt cover off and belt is fine and timing marks line up
-rocker cover off and no broken rockers
-previously edc so no spider immobiliser
- getting fuel to fuel filter, fuel to lift pump and fuel to manual fuel pump
- no fuel to injectors
- turns over but doesn't fire, not even of easy start into inlet
- glow plugs work as they should

any other ideas?

if it has been hydrolocked would this have knocked timing out? it sounds low on compression on turnover I think, or just sounds off

Click to expand...

No fuel to injectors AT ALL implies that is where your problem lies. i.e. injector pump.

Either drive to the injector pump or something inside the pump itself is bruck.
But that's just a pesonal opinion.
Others will come on and pooh pooh if necessary.

No pooh poohing here .... sounds like a good diagnosis to me ...

Stanleysteamer said:

No fuel to injectors AT ALL implies that is where your problem lies. i.e. injector pump.

Either drive to the injector pump or something inside the pump itself is bruck.
But that's just a pesonal opinion.
Others will come on and pooh pooh if necessary.

Click to expand...

I'd agree, apart from the not starting on easy start. that should by pass the pump and fire up

ashleywood.ash said:

I'd agree, apart from the not starting on easy start. that should by pass the pump and fire up

Click to expand...

Yep that is a truly weird one, implies no compression to fire it.

There's zero point in messing about with timing belts, timing, compression, headlights or whatever if there's no fuel coming out of the injector lines.

Time could be in, out, shake it all....

Compression could be great or rubbish.

It's all irrelevant with no fuel coming out of the injector lines.

...basically fix the thing you know, without any doubt, will stop it running, and, if that's fixed, then start looking at other things. But there's little point looking elsewhere first, unless you're considering scrapping the job.