300tdi won't start - Please help me!!

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Rory McStay

New Member
Posts
8
Location
Dun Laoghaire
So I have a 300tdi engine in my Land Rover 90. When I put this in, it did not start or run well. It was very low on power. I worked out the problem to be the Injection pump. I sent the injectors and pump to be rebuilt by a local bosch service point. The engine is a standard, EGR blanked and Non automatic running on Diesel. I have a new side tank with new hoses and new fuel filter. After refitting the pump and injectors, I couldn't get one of the injectors to seal. however the engine glow plugs were not working and 2 sheered off in the headstill ran and drove fine with blowby on one of the injectors. It did not start easily and got progressively worse. Temperature was ~14 degrees at sea level. Come october to present, the temperature dropped to about 6 degrees with highs of 10. At the same time, the engine is failing to start.

It was much colder than previous times I drove the car as it only has been ready to drive after a complete rebuild around august/september 2016 so I don't have much knowledge on how the engine ran before. However it was sitting for a while and this is most likely why pump needed to be rebuilt.

To try remedy the problem, I decided to replace the cylinder head as I had a good one laying around. This would sort blowing injector and glow plugs. This has since been done and I have 4 working glow plugs now in the engine. I have not done a compression test on the engine but I am assuming it is ok.

This did not work do I then tried advancing the timing with no luck. I also changed the fuel lift pump, when taking off the old one I noticed it had less resistance then the new one and I think is broken as I have been able to get all the air out of the engine by cranking the priming handle on the new pump and bleeding at filter housing and Injector pump banjo, this was not possible before as air was always coming though. This seemed to help the problem as I heard a few fires of the engine when the throttle was decked. I also re timed the engine to make sure this was correct. I still have not been able to get it started though.

So as it stands I have:
-No water in the new diesel, 20 fresh litres in a new tank with fresh lines
-New OEM lift pump
-Newly rebuilt Injector pump and at least three working injectors
-Freshly installed cylinder head gasket and correct valve clearances.
-Battery is new but I am starting to doubt it because I don't know what else it could be. All the earths for the starter are new on a freshly galvanised chassis. I have it on a trickle charger
-New Fuel filter with lift pump
-Injectors sealed with new copper sealing washers.
-Engine timed with a 9mm timing pin. So I don't think Ive advanced it much or at all. Will try advance the timing tomorrow.
-I have tried jump starting it with a volkswagen touraeg, this increases starter speed and used to to work but is no longer helping. I have not tried this with new lift pump, I will tomorrow.

Can anyone help point me in the right direction on what I should re check?
Thank you in advance
 
My 300tdi starts without glowplugs and apparently it was minus six yesterday...
Is the starter turning slowly until you jump start it or is it turning normally?
300tdi's self prime so there's no need to crack pipes as this'll risk damaging any seals allowing air to get into the system.
A 300 should also operate 1 tooth out on the timing belt and even if it were slightly more I'd still expect it to start and just run lumpy
 
Marmaduke said:
My 300tdi starts without glowplugs and apparently it was minus six yesterday...
Is the starter turning slowly until you jump start it or is it turning normally?
300tdi's self prime so there's no need to crack pipes as this'll risk damaging any seals allowing air to get into the system.
A 300 should also operate 1 tooth out on the timing belt and even if it were slightly more I'd still expect it to start and just run lumpy
Click to expand...

+1 - 300's are very tolerant of air and timing "errors" IME...

I'd suggest trying a small amount of easy start or brake cleaner sprayed into the inlet plenum - and see if it will run (briefly) on this - if so, then you have a fueling / timing issue. If not, then I suggest compression testing....
 
Disco1BFG said:
+1 - 300's are very tolerant of air and timing "errors" IME...

I'd suggest trying a small amount of easy start or brake cleaner sprayed into the inlet plenum - and see if it will run (briefly) on this - if so, then you have a fueling / timing issue. If not, then I suggest compression testing....
Click to expand...
Careful you'll have the easy start police after you and be banged up like a kipper for new years eve :D
 
I have tried easy start and it splutters a bit and runs on a couple of cylinders but doesn't start. I will investigate compression tomorrow and also try jump start it as I suspect my starter isn't turning the engine fast enough judging by videos on YouTube. I bought my battery from my place of work and I suspect it may have been sitting for a while if that effects it. I have been running it down trying to start it and then it has been charging over night. Would this effect the battery performance?

I am quite certain that it is timed correctly, I torqued head with new head gasket by sequence of the manual. Cleaning the head with mineral spirits and wet and dry appropriate for steel/aluminium with new bolts.
 
I managed to get her started today with a air temp of 13 degrees, I decked the throttle and this seemed to help. It starts rough and idles very rough with lots of black smoke. It seems to run fine
 
Marmaduke said:
Again, mine's starting first turn of the key this frosty morning without any glow plugs and without touching the accelerator
Click to expand...
Both of ours are about the same ( though we still have glowplugs ) - its almost "if you hear the starter motor - there is something wrong"
 
I've just put a new battery on my 300tdi. The old one was at the point where cold weather = slow cranking = not starting on the first turn any more. That, and there were minimal reserves left in the battery to crank it for any length of time to get it going. It didn't quite let me down but it was only a matter of time before it was going to. A new battery sounds like a good idea, but I doubt whether it's the root cause of your trouble.
 
Last edited:
I set crank at tdc at cylinder number 1, visually line up crank at flywheel. Pin the IJ, line up camshaft using camera to remove parallax error. I slacken nuts on IJ pulley. Put on belt, tension it, recheck markings and redo if necessary. I have since ordered correct pin for flywheel but I am sure it is timed correctly.

The pump is currently advance to I think about a 6mm drill bit.

It is currently starting, however, it is hard to start from cold. Once it has been running it is immediately starts up again. I have heard of many others having this problem and had the same problem when the engine was running a few months ago. However, it is running rough at idle until it gets warm. Where is seems to be fine. I increased the idle speed and it seems to have helped things.

I tested for air in the fuel by adding a clear tubing from the fuel filter housing to the injection pump. I have included a link to youtube here where you can see that a vacuum or rush of air pushes up towards the filter housing. I have a one way valve from the tank to the lift pump. I plan on checking if the tank fittings are sealed. Will try applying grease to the joints here to see if it improves. When sitting, there is no air in the clear piping, swell as when running only when under throttle.

This link shows it starting up will upload another video tomorrow starting from cold.

As I said once she's warm she idles and runs fine. Until then, she is hard to start and runs rough and stalls when coming off the throttle. Starts easy once immediately shut off.

All help is much appreciated!
 
The clear pipe is your return to the tank, right? Within reason, it does not matter what's going on in there. The air may have come up from the tank in the past.

Better to have a clear pipe on the inlet to the IP - then you can see whats going into it.
 
Hmm... the return to the tank -

I might be wrong on that, as, ive read, that leaky leak off pipes can allow ingress to the system when the engine is not running, causing drain back, and hard starting.

If the return to the tank allows air to come up from the tank, then that would, i guess, do the same thing?

I thought that the return just terminated at the top of the tank though, but maybe it does not?
 
Rory McStay said:
So I have a 300tdi engine in my Land Rover 90. When I put this in, it did not start or run well. It was very low on power. I worked out the problem to be the Injection pump. I sent the injectors and pump to be rebuilt by a local bosch service point. The engine is a standard, EGR blanked and Non automatic running on Diesel. I have a new side tank with new hoses and new fuel filter. After refitting the pump and injectors, I couldn't get one of the injectors to seal. however the engine glow plugs were not working and 2 sheered off in the headstill ran and drove fine with blowby on one of the injectors. It did not start easily and got progressively worse. Temperature was ~14 degrees at sea level. Come october to present, the temperature dropped to about 6 degrees with highs of 10. At the same time, the engine is failing to start.

It was much colder than previous times I drove the car as it only has been ready to drive after a complete rebuild around august/september 2016 so I don't have much knowledge on how the engine ran before. However it was sitting for a while and this is most likely why pump needed to be rebuilt.

To try remedy the problem, I decided to replace the cylinder head as I had a good one laying around. This would sort blowing injector and glow plugs. This has since been done and I have 4 working glow plugs now in the engine. I have not done a compression test on the engine but I am assuming it is ok.

This did not work do I then tried advancing the timing with no luck. I also changed the fuel lift pump, when taking off the old one I noticed it had less resistance then the new one and I think is broken as I have been able to get all the air out of the engine by cranking the priming handle on the new pump and bleeding at filter housing and Injector pump banjo, this was not possible before as air was always coming though. This seemed to help the problem as I heard a few fires of the engine when the throttle was decked. I also re timed the engine to make sure this was correct. I still have not been able to get it started though.

So as it stands I have:
-No water in the new diesel, 20 fresh litres in a new tank with fresh lines
-New OEM lift pump
-Newly rebuilt Injector pump and at least three working injectors
-Freshly installed cylinder head gasket and correct valve clearances.
-Battery is new but I am starting to doubt it because I don't know what else it could be. All the earths for the starter are new on a freshly galvanised chassis. I have it on a trickle charger
-New Fuel filter with lift pump
-Injectors sealed with new copper sealing washers.
-Engine timed with a 9mm timing pin. So I don't think Ive advanced it much or at all. Will try advance the timing tomorrow.
-I have tried jump starting it with a volkswagen touraeg, this increases starter speed and used to to work but is no longer helping. I have not tried this with new lift pump, I will tomorrow.

Can anyone help point me in the right direction on what I should re check?
Thank you in advance
Click to expand...
U sure that the glow plugs are working ? And have u tried easy start ? If they ok sounds like a timing issue ? My defender 90 300 series starts on button (not gloating ) even though battery bout knackered this morning three slow turn overs she started ? Was expecting worse so assuming if ur plugs are working must be timing ? Give it easy start a try if it starts and runs not fuel or timing . Then it could be electrical ?
 
My 90 300 is starting just with a bad battery it's bout ready but even this mornings chill 2 very low starts she fired up these animals have a will to live so if she runs / starts ok warm it's a cold start issue ? But having read all other posts and replays fuel ok , no air , timing ok , fuel injector timing ok , electrics ok , have you done a compression test ?
 
julianf said:
The clear pipe is your return to the tank, right? Within reason, it does not matter what's going on in there. The air may have come up from the tank in the past.

Better to have a clear pipe on the inlet to the IP - then you can see whats going into it.
Click to expand...
Nope Clear pipe is fuel filter to injector pump, i.e. inlet to injector pump.
 
Rory McStay said:
Nope Clear pipe is fuel filter to injector pump, i.e. inlet to injector pump.
Click to expand...

There should be no air there then.

I have an issue with one of my TDI engines at the moment. Sucks in air at the filter (which should be under positive pressure anyway!)

I've clear pipes, so I know its there. Starts OK, but runs poorly under load.

I reckon #my# lift pump has failed.

I reckon #you# need to get rid of that air.
 
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