300tdi poor starting

mark george · Apr 16, 2012

Guys, i need to get your thoughts before i start buying any more new bits. My 300 tdi auto discovery has never had any problems starting and fires instantly on the first rotation of the engine until the recent temperature drop, however over the past few weeks it has been struggling. When it fires its as if its running on 2 or 3 cylinders and i get whiteish blue smoke out from the exhaust that smells of diesel, my thinking was that i may need a new set of glow plugs. Changed these along with the leak off pipes, a new battery (and an alternator a couple of weeks earlier) , no better! sent it in to the landrover specialists who put a new timing belt on, and told me it was had been 1 tooth out, still no better! When she is reved and warms a little its back to its old self with no starting probs even if left to cool for a while. I have also read some where that the lift pump can cause some issues with starting am i correct? I dont use any thing other than diesel from so no cooking oil is in the tank. I have seen conflicting post about starting some saying that the glows are not needed until the outside temp is well bellow freezing and some say it does need them so im confused,its not using any significant oil or coolent and runs fine when its ran for about 5 seconds. it wont rev for the first 10 seconds until all cylinders have started firing. Any ideas?

Paul D · Apr 16, 2012

Check air filter, air inlet pipes.

mark george · Apr 16, 2012

I'll check those tonight, changed the air filter last summer though along with the MAF valve... purrs like a kitten after a few seconds of running though, cheers Paul

shocker · Apr 16, 2012

EDC coolant temp sensor wiring/connector damage ?

mark george · Apr 16, 2012

Hmmm sounds possible, would this throw up a check engine light? can the sensor be checked?

Paul D · Apr 16, 2012

I was thinking that the air filter might have got water in it, if so it can turn to mush, block the pipes and give similar symptoms ..

mark george · Apr 16, 2012

Its worth a check Paul, not sure how it could get wet though, it just carries me to work and back and drags a hores trailer around every few weeks.

Paul D · Apr 16, 2012

Happened to me, dunno how exactly but largish puddle, too much speed, water lifted by the tyre and into the air inlet somehow .. coughed and spluttered for ages, but carried on running. Air filter was complete mush when I got chance to open it, almost solidified!

Heheh pimp-mobile eh?

I also tow a horse box occasionally ..

shocker · Apr 16, 2012

No , no check engine light . Look at the sensor and wiring under the rubber engine cover to start with , damage from heat is common and quite obvious .

If you do some searches this has been covered in depth and all the figures are here , sorry I havent a link for you .

mark george · Apr 16, 2012

Blimey, as simple as a puddle eh! i'll check it this evening

Paul D · Apr 16, 2012

Could hardly believe it myself, but couldn't think of any other way it happened. I've been through fords way deeper, over my bonnet a couple of times and it didn't happen! Just one of those things ..

Wading - YouTube

shocker · Apr 16, 2012

EDC check data compiled from other peoples posts on here , I claim no credit

no 4 injector is used on the autos for pump timing as they are edc pumps so it needs to stay in no 4 cylinder
you can check the injector using a multimeter across the 2 pins in the connector from the injector it should read about 100 ohms*
Also the temp sensor on top of the cylinder head can cause problems if the resistance is incorrect the engine may think its cold and tell the ecu to inject more fuel causing a missfire as its overfueling
The ecu is located in the drivers kick panel and if you unplug the multi plug you can check sensor readings there
coolant temp sensor pins 13 and 53 should give you 2280-2720 ohms at 20 degrees c
injector pins 5 and 12 should be 90-100 ohms
when looking at the plug no 1 pin is top right pin 19 is top left*
pin 20 is middle right ,pin37 is middle left
pin 38 is bottom right ,pin 55 is bottom left

no. 4 injector is used for timing and if you use an ohm meter across the 2 terminals inside the plug from the injector you should see about 100ohms the wire plugs into another connector then goes to the ecu
if you have time you might read my problems*

you can check the resistance at the ecu multiplug to see if the wiring is ok*
plug pin 13 and 53 are engine temp sensor and should be 2280-2720 ohms at 20 deg c
plug pin 13 and 52 are air temp sensor and should be 6030-6370 ohms at 20 deg

...coolant sensor in italics , sensor is in centre of cyl head half way back with two wire going to it that are often heat damaged

shocker · Apr 16, 2012

If its air filter just open the box and whip it out , see what happens

gazdav · Apr 16, 2012

Check for this as I had the same prob when I first got the last one

Fuel filter
Fuel sedimenter
Fuel pipes one was partially blocked

Air filter
Maf

After that you may need a running diagnostic test if its an edc

elsie · Apr 16, 2012

shocker said:
EDC check data compiled from other peoples posts on here , I claim no credit

no 4 injector is used on the autos for pump timing as they are edc pumps so it needs to stay in no 4 cylinder
you can check the injector using a multimeter across the 2 pins in the connector from the injector it should read about 100 ohms*
Also the temp sensor on top of the cylinder head can cause problems if the resistance is incorrect the engine may think its cold and tell the ecu to inject more fuel causing a missfire as its overfueling
The ecu is located in the drivers kick panel and if you unplug the multi plug you can check sensor readings there
coolant temp sensor pins 13 and 53 should give you 2280-2720 ohms at 20 degrees c
injector pins 5 and 12 should be 90-100 ohms
when looking at the plug no 1 pin is top right pin 19 is top left*
pin 20 is middle right ,pin37 is middle left
pin 38 is bottom right ,pin 55 is bottom left

no. 4 injector is used for timing and if you use an ohm meter across the 2 terminals inside the plug from the injector you should see about 100ohms the wire plugs into another connector then goes to the ecu
if you have time you might read my problems*

you can check the resistance at the ecu multiplug to see if the wiring is ok*
plug pin 13 and 53 are engine temp sensor and should be 2280-2720 ohms at 20 deg c
plug pin 13 and 52 are air temp sensor and should be 6030-6370 ohms at 20 deg

...coolant sensor in italics , sensor is in centre of cyl head half way back with two wire going to it that are often heat damaged

Just to clarify , not all auto's are fly by wire .

mark george · Apr 16, 2012

Paul D said:
Could hardly believe it myself, but couldn't think of any other way it happened. I've been through fords way deeper, over my bonnet a couple of times and it didn't happen! Just one of those things ..

Wading - YouTube

just got home and had enough time for a quick few checks. Air filter in perfect condition unfortunatly!! knew it wouldnt be that simple... had a quick look at the temp sensor under the engine cover and the wires look ok, but the plastic wind around cover on the wire shows obvious signs its been hot.......... i.e. it shows signs of melting! could this be telling the EDC the engine is hot when in reality its cold?? the glow plug light stays on longer when cold than when hot, so EDC is getting a message from somewhere.

Got a few things to check the weekend thanks to Shocker so this will be first on the list.

For info i fitted a new No.4 injector with the sensor about 6 months ago as it failed and the CEL was on all the time.

......Mark

Paul D · Apr 16, 2012

Worth a try, sorry I can't help more.

shocker · Apr 17, 2012

elsie said:
Just to clarify , not all auto's are fly by wire .

Granted Elsie , granted ....but most 300 autos are .

shocker · Apr 17, 2012

AS has been mentioned , fuel supply , check the things already listed , also spill pipes between injectors and return pipe .

The glow plug system is doing its job if it stays on longer in the cold as it will take longer to warm up then . Dont worry about the visible heat damage unless it appears terminal , most have it . Check the numbers with a meter instead .

But dont go looking for complicated trouble , the engine needs air free fuel to work and thats the most common problem diesels have . So check the fuel system through and clean it all . If necessary put a length of clear hose in somewhere to see if there are any air bubbles , if there are sarch air in fuel , theres pages of it on here .

Good luck , dont panic and most of all , keep us up to date !

mark george · May 7, 2012

Right guys, been working away so just got round to the job at hand!! removed and cleaned the fuel sedimenter - it was clean as a whistle to be honest! changed the fuel filter, changed the spill pipes, removed all the glow plugs again and checked them on the battery, all glow red within a few seconds.

Still clouds of smoke at start up and the usual - 1 cylinder fires, then, two then three, then eventually all four, revs a little high for a few seconds then settles down and then runs...... perfect!

300tdi poor starting

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Old, nackered 'n broke, but the Landy is fine . :)

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Old, nackered 'n broke, but the Landy is fine . :)

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Old, nackered 'n broke, but the Landy is fine . :)

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Old, nackered 'n broke, but the Landy is fine . :)

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